Wilson or Kimber?

[bucfan]

What does everybody think about the Wilson and Kimber 1911's. A friend of mine bought a kimber and it was the best handgun I had ever fired. It shot so tight that it even made ME look good! LOL. But would I have to go with wilson because they are from my state. I'm sure they are both execellent guns.

Nick

[andy]

of retail (or less,in the case of the Wilson) Stick to used, "fully loaded" Spld's, preferably the alloy compact, for under $500, and you can't lose. Remember, 80+% of the shots fired in justifiable civilian self defense are fired at 10 FEET or less, with over half of them fired at 6 FEET or less, 90+% at 15 FEET or less, 95+% at 20 FEET or less, and 99+% fired at 30 ft or less. Most attacks are not made with a gun, so you risk prison, or financial ruin if you fire at more than about 10 ft.

I've taken hundreds of animals with guns that wouldn't group 3" at 25 yds, and I've won scores of combat matche. s with guns that grouped no better than that.

Even at Bullseye matches, the 10 ring is 3.5" in Diameter, at 25 yds, and x counts just break ties. In other words, if I get 10, 10's, and NO x's, I beat you with 99 points, and 9 x's. 2/3rds of the NRA course is shot at 25 yds. If your gun will group 3" there, and you do your part, it will group 8" at 50 yds. If you get perfect scores at rapid and timed fire, and stay in the 8" circle of the 8 ring at 50 yds, you will WIN any BE match, short of one where the NATIONAL champs compete (using iron sights, anyway)

If all your shots are inside the 8 ring, about 4 of 10 will be 10's, and 3 of the remainder will be 9's. so you are going to score about 90 out of 100 points. 290,out of 300, with a .45, WINS, unless the optical sights and TOP men are present. Many times, 270 out of 300 points, will win, especially if it's really hot, really cold, windy, etc, 250 out of 300 will win. :-)

[ike t.]

I am told Kimber makes a great 1911, never tried one.
I have been very happy with my Springfield Armory 1911-A1.
Quite accurate, rugged, well made.

[andy]

the "military" model, because you will either get rid of it, or pay a smith way too much to make it the equal of the "fully-loaded" version, and if you ever sell it, you wont get any more for the smithed gun than will the guy who had enough smarts to get the fully loaded model from the start.

[ike t.]

I like a man who says what he thinks. I don't plan to get
rid of it. I have no problem with hammer up, safety cocked.
one fast flick of the thumb and READY TO DO BUSINESS.

BUT hey thanks for the input.

[bucfan]

Well ike, you will LOVE andy 223 then.

Nick

[Paco]

My SA Loaded turned out to be a gem. Great trigger, reliable and way more accurate than I. The Wilsons are in another class in price and I assume craftsmanship than Kimbers or SA.

I've only been here a week or so but it is about the most grown up group of gun nuts I've come across on the Web. With no one getting all bent out of shape over different views. Good to see.

[andy]

have browbeaten some of the usual catcallers.

[Rich Z]

I think I just asked people to act like adults. Differences of opinion are to be expected among people who think for themselves, and have a broad base of experiences.

But there is no reason to antagonize someone for thinking about something differently than you do. I think everyone has something to add knowledgewise, so I just want people to share the brainpower without ego getting in the way.

There are some obviously very knowledgeable people who come here and I, for one, would like to be able to read what they say without seeing an obvious chip on their shoulder. Supplying the baggage of an abrasive attitude along with information, no matter how great, just shuts the door on a reader's opinion of the worthiness of what they have to offer.

Gunowners are under siege. So can we really afford to be divisive among ourselves?

If the sh!t ever does really hit the fan, probably the one survival skill that will be of most value is the ability to get along with other people. Otherwise the struggling survivors will simply shoot the pain in the butt who can't get along with anyone else, and be done with it.

[ike t.]

A reasonable conclusion.

Thanks, Rich

[andy]

to offer, they will probably be disease ridden. I intend to stay as remote from everyone as possible. The guys who are COUNTING on having help are making a big mistake. You can't REALLY count on anyone to even stand by you if you are accused of a crime, much less when it costs them blood, pain, etc.

[HELLBENT]

what do most the matches consist of

[andy]

who are you asking?

[HELLBENT]

i was asking ANDY sorry for the confusion LOL

[andy]

blanks or wax bullets, and then there's IDPA and IPSC "combat" matches, done with live ammo, but I haven't heard of any Leatherslaps being put on by those organizations in many years. They are probably scared of having somebody blow off a foot. It does take many scores of hours of work, dryfiring, primer powered wax (or airguns) then live fire, to get to be truly fast with the draw. REAL Concealed draw speed is so rare that it's practically unknown. There's nothing much consistent in the range, target size, start position for the hands, holster requirments, how the timing is done, etc, so you might see times as fast as ..40 second, for hand on gun start, with an openly worn speed rig, at arm's length, or as "slow" as 1.5 second for starting with hands at "crucifiction", gun really concealed under a fastened coat, for a head shot at 10m.

So I guess I need to know more about what you want to know, in order to better answer your question.

[Mjolnir1964]

I'm psyched....I'm getting the high-capacity model with the synthetic frame..the Ten II . It's got the Gold cup features, fully adjustable rear sight, light trigger, etc. Picking it up Friday....I'll be doing the happy dance.

-R.

[andy]

some people have money to waste. Many, many a Kimber or Wilson user has been beaten by a man using a used, $500 "fully loaded" Springfield. But hey, I'm a guy who is concerned with PERFORMANCE, and almost nobody else is. :-)

[DJetAce]

I have no doubt IDPA and IPSC are scared they might blow a foot off doing leather slaps. After all, gunkid DID shoot himself in the foot.

As for 1911s, Wilsons are great. Kimbers are great. Sure, even Springfield Armory pistols are pretty good. And one of them will do the deed. But unlike gunkid, I HAVE A KIMBER. I even practiced with it Sunday afternoon. That's something gunkid CAN'T do!

[Garand]

I have an early Wilson "LTD", that I have been using for years. Its a great gun providing you do your part. Remember, marksmanship is a PERISHABLE SKILL.

[SatCong]

My primary carry weapon is a Kimber Ultra II, after a few minor teething probs, it has proven to be as reliable as my 44 spl. which is my second choice carry.
SatCong

[RIKA]

Hello Sat Cong, welcome to the group. We've never talked but I recognize your name from HCT.

RIKA :)

[TODD 3465]

If money were not much of an object I'd go with Wilson.

[SatCong]

Thanks, Raider.
One and the same and glad to be here!
SatCong

[andy]

the Kimber is 10x the fighting gun any revolver is, for a fact.

[Garand]

And you have fired the Kimber, when?

[SatCong]

I actually make the daily choice of one of three carry pieces, the third choice is usually a sigpro 2340, --based on the holster--the Kimber and sig rigs both have retention, while the taurus 445 rig does not. Since I train and carry reloaders or clips with and for each weapon, I feel confident and competent with each. There is a tremendous psych value when someone notices that 44 cal hole in the end of the barrel of the wheelgun, seemingly much more so than either of the autos. Any of the three will suffice for a fight, that's why I chose each. They are all equally reliable, in my experience, and while the sig has the advantage of capacity, I carry enough reload for each weapon, and practice the drill with each, so that advantage is negligible.
SatCong

[BigJon]

Just recently ordered my "1991 for life". It'll be a Kimber, but with a bit of aftermarket work. This is not just a defensive pistol; I also wanted one handgun that will be passed down in my family, as my grandfather and great-grandfather's arms will be. I went with the Kimber because I have always performed better with them. Heck, it may be nothing more than a psychological edge I seem to have with one - I just like 'em. As mentioned above, though, you are going to be hard-pressed to find more bang for the buck than you'll get with a loaded Springfield.

Regards,
Jon

[andy]

u r fos. NEARLY everyone backs down from the sight of a "mere" .22 pointed at them. YOU would,for instance. :-) .22 ina punk means either death or prison, because he HAS to get medical care,or die, and medical personel HAVE to report gunshot wounds to the cops. I'll take a M21 Beretta in my pocket, my hand on it, to your .44, buried under a fastened winter coat, and asport jacket, any day. Before you can dig the .44 out from underneath all that crap, the M21 will have been emptied at your head. :-) since most attacks occur at 6 ft or less range, just WHAT do you "think" the odds are of all 8 rds missing your head, hmm?

[RIKA]

Funny how the 44 always has to be BURIED under a fastened winter coat and a sport jacket. It can never be just concealed under a loose fitting garment. Melvin always has to pitch the situation so his POS Beretta has the edge. Some nitwits never learn.

RIKA

[SatCong]

Squirtgun,
There is absolutely no doubt in my military mind, that if it came to a gun fight between you and me, you would wind up on the wrong side of the grass. I do not bury my carry weapon, and I am extremely proficient in both bringing it to bear and hitting that, at which I aim. The biggest advantage I have, however is that I do not blink. God save you if you cause me to draw down upon you, for I neither brandish nor threaten, I will shoot you to the ground, and you will be stopped. Just a cold, hard fact, scum.
SatCong

[Hard Ball]

" for I neither brandish nor threaten,:

Niether do I. Niether does anyone else I know who has ever been in or seen a real gunfight, GunKid has never done either. He only posts what he imagines. His advice on fighting with pistols or revolvers is utterly worthless.

[RIKA]

Seems to me that the person who just waves a gun around is inviting an attack. Better to just draw it and use it if life is threatened.

RIKA

[SatCong]

That's the way it works, ya'll.
SatCong

[andy]

I've held men under the gun 4x, and they one and all had LOTS more sense than you idiots. They KNEW that they were .5 second from being very dead, if they didn't stop in their tracks, and so they DID. Everyone with real experience knows that 90+% of the time guys DO stop at just the sight of a ready gun.

If you DO hit a guy with a bullet, it will cost you a MINIMUM of $20,000,dumbasses, andit could EASILY mean $100,000 or even prison. Wtf makes you THINK that there won't be witnesses, hmm? usually there IS, and usually you DONT notice them. Your stupid enough to walk right over to the car that's tracable to you, keep going to work or wherever it was that led you to the fight in the first place, and somebody will recognzie you as the pos who shot his buddy, (AFTER he stopped his attack) U r a bunch of bs NOTHINGS, is what you are.

[Aslan]

If you DO hit a guy with a bullet, it will cost you a MINIMUM of $20,000,dumbasses, andit could EASILY mean $100,000 or even prison. Wtf makes you THINK that there won't be witnesses, hmm? usually there IS, and usually you DONT notice them. Your stupid enough to walk right over to the car that's tracable to you, keep going to work or wherever it was that led you to the fight in the first place, and somebody will recognzie you as the pos who shot his buddy, (AFTER he stopped his attack) U r a bunch of bs NOTHINGS, is what you are.

So, it costs me 100K. I'm alive. I WANT there to be witnesses, lot's of 'em. You're STUPID enough to make yourself instantly guilty by running. An innocent person has no need to run away. Here you are talking about leaving the scene of a shooting (fugitive flight?)

Why am I going to shoot somebody if they stop their attack?

Typical convict babble and bad advice.

You are the bs nothing, a mere drama queen without a clue.

:devil:

[SatCong]

Squirtgun,
You are a weak minded failure.
SatCong

[Garand]

I'm not stupid enough to get into the scenario gunkid describes. Thats the difference between us and you gunkid.