WHAT man used even 30 rds of pistol

[andy]

ammo, in fighting, in ALL of WW2? :-) that was against BOLT actions, yet. But YOU guys are going to be STUPID enough to CONTINUALLY, AND REPEATEDLY get caught without your RIFLE, and against AUTORIFLES, and you are going to save the day by MISSING a lot with your little pistol. Well it aint so. When everyone is carrying an auto rifle, if you have more than 2-3 occasions that you need more than 2-3 shots to make it to your rifle, you aint GONNA make it, period. So why PLAN on being stupid enough to not KEEP your autorifle at HAND, hmm?

[mrostov]

More real experienceliving in the woods will teach you that you cannot carry your rifle 100% of the time.

Pistols were used a LOT in the vicious combat of the Russian Front. The troops in Iraq have used pistols a lot for CQB and many Marines are now recommending that everyne be issued a sidearm.

[Stillwater]

Originally posted by 223 fan
ammo, in fighting, in ALL of WW2? :-) that was against BOLT actions, yet. But YOU guys are going to be STUPID enough to CONTINUALLY, AND REPEATEDLY get caught without your RIFLE, and against AUTORIFLES, and you are going to save the day by MISSING a lot with your little pistol. Well it aint so. When everyone is carrying an auto rifle, if you have more than 2-3 occasions that you need more than 2-3 shots to make it to your rifle, you aint GONNA make it, period. So why PLAN on being stupid enough to not KEEP your autorifle at HAND, hmm?

MELVIN, this forum is not about war, it is about survival.

Somewhere, in the deep dark recesses of, your undeveloped mind, you should realize that, and get on topic.

Nobody is fighting a war here. You wouldn't survive a war anyway, with the drivel you post as facts.

If it ever did actually become a war here, you would be a one day wonder -- one day, and you would be done for.

Bill

[Garand]

Ever tried to take a dump while holding a locked and loaded FN? I have! If the balloon ever goes up while you have your drawers dropped, you better be very talented! Ever tried carrying a large box and a rifle, 2 jerrycans of water and a rifle, a load of firewood and a rifle, etc?

And then there are those moments that we have to face somebody, that unlike yourself actually has some knowledge of how to employ his rifle properly. If and when that happens, you just might need more than 3 rds to extract yourself from the situation. You should really clean your crystal ball.

[andy]

you are going to SURVIVE by MISSING a lot with a pistol. :-) dumbasses. NOBODY used a pistol much at all, and lived to tell about it, except thru pure LUCK. while you MIGHT need to sling a lw compact rifle a lot, and lay it aside (within REACH) now and then, that does NOT mean that you will survive by firing lots of pistol rds, on lots of occasions. you people have a SEVERE case of Rambo fantasies.

If you "think" that shtf WONT mean the most horrible war-conditions ever SEEN, you are one ignorant <font color=red>[**censored**]</font>.

[Magnum88C]

You don't have to shoot a lot, or miss a lot to go through the mystical 30 rounds of pistol ammo.

You also have this misconception that everyone will be rushing to fight, SHTF. Not so, people will realize the dangers of the lack of medical care, extreme difficulty in going it alone, and will, for the most part, cooperate. Only criminals will be picking fights, and once a few of them have been made examples (by getting a very slow, very bad death), most of them will curb their tendencies.

[KJUN]

Originally posted by Garand
Ever tried to take a dump while holding a locked and loaded FN?

No, but I have (and fired!) with a .410 bore shotgun while squirrel hunting, but I don't think anyone is interested in THAT story.

KJ

[andy]

or you wont make it, and that's a LOT of mistakes to be making, when everyone is carrying an autorifle. You have no CLUE how fast, how MANY men will deteriorate to cannabilism. It wont take take 2 months, in a lot of cases. They will be raping and killing for food within a week, in MOST cases, not just a few. They really have any CHOICE, because they aint GOT a week's supply of food, and wont have any other way of getting any, either.

[KJUN]

> They will be raping and killing for food

I don't think many people rape for food, 223 Fan.

[Garand]

Any idiot convict that manages to escape after the balloon goes up will have any weapon that he can find. Be it semi auto, bolt action, shotgun, pistol, revolver, knife, shive, whatever! Most will be too stupid to take more than 3 boxes of ammo because they are scared that it will weigh to much!

[Magnum88C]

Originally posted by Garand
Any idiot convict that manages to escape after the balloon goes up will have any weapon that he can find. Be it semi auto, bolt action, shotgun, pistol, revolver, knife, shive, whatever! Most will be too stupid to take more than 3 boxes of ammo because they are scared that it will weigh to much!


Given the usual criminal's choice of weaponry, and their skill with it, the most dangerous place to be is NEXT to the guy they're shooting at. I hate to say it, but GK probably has 100x the knowledge and skill with weapons than 99% of the criminals, career or one-timer, out there. Too bad he doesn't realize this, as he'd give up on his convict army idea.

[Unregistered]

Expect immediate summary executions of any crimianl bands found in any SHTF. The people will not hold court. They will not look for a defense lawyer. They will not worry about evidence. And they very much will not wait for a higher court ruling.

As they have found, the BEST way to stop criminal activity is DEATH. Jail is the next best and that is what is used today.

Any criminal army will be dealt with in a very exterminating fashion. Just look at how many trained military people we now have from Desert Storm and the Iraq war. We have been in so many little wars for the last 20 years there are many veterans out there now that know tactics and weapons.

No, don't be afraid of some crimianal army. With leadership like Gunkids, they will be very easy to destroy.

[Stillwater]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Expect immediate summary executions of any crimianl bands found in any SHTF. The people will not hold court. They will not look for a defense lawyer. They will not worry about evidence. And they very much will not wait for a higher court ruling.

As they have found, the BEST way to stop criminal activity is DEATH. Jail is the next best and that is what is used today.

Any criminal army will be dealt with in a very exterminating fashion. Just look at how many trained military people we now have from Desert Storm and the Iraq war. We have been in so many little wars for the last 20 years there are many veterans out there now that know tactics and weapons.

No, don't be afraid of some crimianal army. With leadership like Gunkids, they will be very easy to destroy.

The TARD, aka gunkid is a leader? Surely you give him much, to much credit.

The TARD couldn't lead himself, to the outhouse, without someone showing him the way.

If SHTF does occur, martial law would probably be declared within 48 hours, or less.

Summary executions? Probably could happen, but the executioners themselves would most likely be executed under martial law by the government.

Bill

[Garand]

Wasn'y there some Navy Petty Officer in Vietnam who was a competition shooter stateside that used a .45 to defend a helicopter crash sight for a couple of hours until rescue helicopters got into position?? I think he was awarded the CMH??

[Stillwater]

Originally posted by Garand
Wasn'y there some Navy Petty Officer in Vietnam who was a competition shooter stateside that used a .45 to defend a helicopter crash sight for a couple of hours until rescue helicopters got into position?? I think he was awarded the CMH??

Thats a story I would like to read, if it is available.

Bill

[Garand]

Maxwell, Robert D.

www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm

Myth & Legend

www.sightm1911.com/1911nj.htm

[Stillwater]

Originally posted by Garand
Maxwell, Robert D.

www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm

Myth & Legend

www.sightm1911.com/1911nj.htm

Garand:
While reading those stories, I was swept with respect for these men as they fought the enemy.

Thank you very much for posting this, for all of us to read. I have bookmarked the site.

Bill

[Stillwater]

Originally posted by 223 fan
ammo, in fighting, in ALL of WW2? :-) that was against BOLT actions, yet. But YOU guys are going to be STUPID enough to CONTINUALLY, AND REPEATEDLY get caught without your RIFLE, and against AUTORIFLES, and you are going to save the day by MISSING a lot with your little pistol. Well it aint so. When everyone is carrying an auto rifle, if you have more than 2-3 occasions that you need more than 2-3 shots to make it to your rifle, you aint GONNA make it, period. So why PLAN on being stupid enough to not KEEP your autorifle at HAND, hmm?

TARD, you blithering idiot. Garand just posted proof. Read it, and be educated, IDIOT!

Bill

[mrostov]

This may come as a shock to at least one person here, but in WWII there were a vast number of personal automatic weapons used, not just bolt actions. The Garand, the MP40 series, the PPSH series, etc.

[mrostov]

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm
WWII Medal of Honor recipients

*MARTIN, HARRY LINN

Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve. Born: 4 January 1911, Bucyrus, Ohio. Appointed from. Ohio. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as platoon leader attached to Company C, 5th Pioneer Battalion, 5th Marine Division, in action against enemy Japanese forces on Iwo Jima, Volcano Islands, 26 March 1945. With his sector of the 5th Pioneer Battalion bivouac area penetrated by a concentrated enemy attack launched a few minutes before dawn, 1st Lt. Martin instantly organized a firing line with the marines nearest his foxhole and succeeded in checking momentarily the headlong rush of the Japanese. Determined to rescue several of his men trapped in positions overrun by the enemy, he defied intense hostile fire to work his way through the Japanese to the surrounded marines. Although sustaining 2 severe wounds, he blasted the Japanese who attempted to intercept him, located his beleaguered men and directed them to their own lines. When 4 of the infiltrating enemy took possession of an abandoned machinegun pit and subjected his sector to a barrage of hand grenades, 1st Lt. Martin, alone and armed only with a pistol, boldly charged the hostile position and killed all of its occupants. Realizing that his few remaining comrades could not repulse another organized attack, he called to his men to follow and then charged into the midst of the strong enemy force, firing his weapon and scattering them until he fell, mortally wounded by a grenade. By his outstanding valor, indomitable fighting spirit and tenacious determination in the face of overwhelming odds, 1st Lt. Martin permanently disrupted a coordinated Japanese attack and prevented a greater loss of life in his own and adjacent platoons. His inspiring leadership and unswerving devotion to duty reflect the highest credit upon himself and the U.S. Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life in the service of his country.

[mrostov]

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm
WWII Medal of Honor recipients

MAXWELL, ROBERT D.

Rank and organization: Technician Fifth Grade, U.S. Army, 7th Infantry, 3d Infantry Division. Place and date: Near Besancon, France, 7 September 1944. Entered service at: Larimer County, Colo. Birth: Boise, Idaho. G.O. No.: 24, 6 April 1945. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at risk of life above and beyond the call of duty on 7 September 1944, near Besancon, France. Technician 5th Grade Maxwell and 3 other soldiers, armed only with .45 caliber automatic pistols, defended the battalion observation post against an overwhelming onslaught by enemy infantrymen in approximately platoon strength, supported by 20mm. flak and machinegun fire, who had infiltrated through the battalion's forward companies and were attacking the observation post with machinegun, machine pistol, and grenade fire at ranges as close as 10 yards. Despite a hail of fire from automatic weapons and grenade launchers, Technician 5th Grade Maxwell aggressively fought off advancing enemy elements and, by his calmness, tenacity, and fortitude, inspired his fellows to continue the unequal struggle. When an enemy hand grenade was thrown in the midst of his squad, Technician 5th Grade Maxwell unhesitatingly hurled himself squarely upon it, using his blanket and his unprotected body to absorb the full force of the explosion. This act of instantaneous heroism permanently maimed Technician 5th Grade Maxwell, but saved the lives of his comrades in arms and facilitated maintenance of vital military communications during the temporary withdrawal of the battalion's forward headquarters.

[mrostov]

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm
WWII Medal of Honor recipients

*MERRELL, JOSEPH F.

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, Company I, 15th Infantry, 3d Infantry Division. Place and date: Near Lohe, Germany, 18 April 1945. Entered service at: Staten Island, N.Y. Birth: Staten Island, N.Y. G.O. No.: 21, 26 February 1946. Citation: He made a gallant, 1-man attack against vastly superior enemy forces near Lohe, Germany. His unit, attempting a quick conquest of hostile hill positions that would open the route to Nuremberg before the enemy could organize his defense of that city, was pinned down by brutal fire from rifles, machine pistols, and 2 heavy machineguns. Entirely on his own initiative, Pvt. Merrell began a single-handed assault. He ran 100 yards through concentrated fire, barely escaping death at each stride, and at pointblank range engaged 4 German machine pistolmen with his rifle, killing all of them while their bullets ripped his uniform. As he started forward again, his rifle was smashed by a sniper's bullet, leaving him armed only with 3 grenades. But he did not hesitate. He zigzagged 200 yards through a hail of bullets to within 10 yards of the first machinegun, where he hurled 2 grenades and then rushed the position ready to fight with his bare hands if necessary. In the emplacement he seized a Luger pistol and killed what Germans had survived the grenade blast. Rearmed, he crawled toward the second machinegun located 30 yards away, killing 4 Germans in camouflaged foxholes on the way, but himself receiving a critical wound in the abdomen. And yet he went on, staggering, bleeding, disregarding bullets which tore through the folds of his clothing and glanced off his helmet. He threw his last grenade into the machinegun nest and stumbled on to wipe out the crew. He had completed this self-appointed task when a machine pistol burst killed him instantly. In his spectacular 1-man attack Pvt. Merrell killed 6 Germans in the first machinegun emplacement, 7 in the next, and an additional 10 infantrymen who were astride his path to the weapons which would have decimated his unit had he not assumed the burden of the assault and stormed the enemy positions with utter fearlessness, intrepidity of the highest order, and a willingness to sacrifice his own life so that his comrades could go on to victory.

[mrostov]

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm
WWII Medal of Honor recipients

*OLSON, ARLO L.

Rank and organization: Captain, U.S. Army, 1 5th Infantry, 3d Infantry Division. Place and date: Crossing of the Volturno River, Italy, 13 October 1943. Entered service at: Toronto, S. Dak. Birth: Greenville, lowa. G.O. No.: 71, 31 August 1944. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. On 13 October 1943, when the drive across the Volturno River began, Capt. Olson and his company spearheaded the advance of the regiment through 30 miles of mountainous enemy territory in 13 days. Placing himself at the head of his men, Capt. Olson waded into the chest-deep water of the raging Volturno River and despite pointblank machine-gun fire aimed directly at him made his way to the opposite bank and threw 2 handgrenades into the gun position, killing the crew. When an enemy machinegun 150 yards distant opened fire on his company, Capt. Olson advanced upon the position in a slow, deliberate walk. Although 5 German soldiers threw handgrenades at him from a range of 5 yards, Capt. Olson dispatched them all, picked up a machine pistol and continued toward the enemy. Advancing to within 15 yards of the position he shot it out with the foe, killing 9 and seizing the post. Throughout the next 13 days Capt. Olson led combat patrols, acted as company No. 1 scout and maintained unbroken contact with the enemy. On 27 October 1943, Capt. Olson conducted a platoon in attack on a strongpoint, crawling to within 25 yards of the enemy and then charging the position. Despite continuous machinegun fire which barely missed him, Capt. Olson made his way to the gun and killed the crew with his pistol. When the men saw their leader make this desperate attack they followed him and overran the position. Continuing the advance, Capt. Olson led his company to the next objective at the summit of Monte San Nicola. Although the company to his right was forced to take cover from the furious automatic and small arms fire, which was directed upon him and his men with equal intensity, Capt. Olson waved his company into a skirmish line and despite the fire of a machinegun which singled him out as its sole target led the assault which drove the enemy away. While making a reconnaissance for defensive positions, Capt. Olson was fatally wounded. Ignoring his severe pain, this intrepid officer completed his reconnaissance, Supervised the location of his men in the best defense positions, refused medical aid until all of his men had been cared for, and died as he was being carried down the mountain.

[mrostov]

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm
WWII Medal of Honor recipients

*ROBINSON, JAMES E., JR.

Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, U.S. Army, Battery A, 861st Field Artillery Battalion, 63d Infantry Division. Place and date: Near Untergriesheim, Germany, 6 April 1945. Entered service at: Waco, Tex. Birth: Toledo, Ohio. G.O. No.: 117, 11 December 1945. Citation: He was a field artillery forward observer attached to Company A, 253d Infantry, near Untergriesheim, Germany, on 6 April 1945. Eight hours of desperate fighting over open terrain swept by German machinegun, mortar, and small-arms fire had decimated Company A, robbing it of its commanding officer and most of its key enlisted personnel when 1st Lt. Robinson rallied the 23 remaining uninjured riflemen and a few walking wounded, and, while carrying his heavy radio for communication with American batteries, led them through intense fire in a charge against the objective. Ten German infantrymen in foxholes threatened to stop the assault, but the gallant leader killed them all at point-blank range with rifle and pistol fire and then pressed on with his men to sweep the area of all resistance. Soon afterward he was ordered to seize the defended town of Kressbach. He went to each of the 19 exhausted survivors with cheering words, instilling in them courage and fortitude, before leading the little band forward once more. In the advance he was seriously wounded in the throat by a shell fragment, but, despite great pain and loss of blood, he refused medical attention and continued the attack, directing supporting artillery fire even though he was mortally wounded. Only after the town had been taken and he could no longer speak did he leave the command he had inspired in victory and walk nearly 2 miles to an aid station where he died from his wound. By his intrepid leadership 1st Lt. Robinson was directly responsible for Company A's accomplishing its mission against tremendous odds.

[mrostov]

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm
WWII Medal of Honor recipients

SAKATO, GEORGE T.


Private George T. Sakato distinguished himself by extraordinary heroism in action on 29 October 1944, on hill 617 in the vicinity of Biffontaine, France. After his platoon had virtually destroyed two enemy defense lines, during which he personally killed five enemy soldiers and captured four, his unit was pinned down by heavy enemy fire. Disregarding the enemy fire, Private Sakato made a one-man rush that encouraged his platoon to charge and destroy the enemy strongpoint. While his platoon was reorganizing, he proved to be the inspiration of his squad in halting a counter-attack on the left flank during which his squad leader was killed. Taking charge of the squad, he continued his relentless tactics, using an enemy rifle and P-38 pistol to stop an organized enemy attack. During this entire action, he killed 12 and wounded two, personally captured four and assisted his platoon in taking 34 prisoners. By continuously ignoring enemy fire, and by his gallant courage and fighting spirit, he turned impending defeat into victory and helped his platoon complete its mission. Private Sakato’s extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and the United States Army.

[mrostov]

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm
WWII Medal of Honor recipients

*SHERIDAN, CARL V.

Rank and organization: Private First Class, U.S. Army, Company K, 47th Infantry, 9th Infantry Division. Place and date: Frenzenberg Castle, Weisweiler, Germany, 26 November 1944. Entered service at: Baltimore, Md. Birth: Baltimore, Md. G.O. No.: 43, 30 May 1445. Citation: Attached to the 2d Battalion of the 47th Infantry on 26 November 1944, for the attack on Frenzenberg Castle, in the vicinity of Weisweiler, Germany, Company K, after an advance of 1,000 yards through a shattering barrage of enemy artillery and mortar fire, had captured 2 buildings in the courtyard of the castle but was left with an effective fighting strength of only 35 men. During the advance, Pfc. Sheridan, acting as a bazooka gunner, had braved the enemy fire to stop and procure the additional rockets carried by his ammunition bearer who was wounded. Upon rejoining his company in the captured buildings, he found it in a furious fight with approximately 70 enemy paratroopers occupying the castle gate house. This was a solidly built stone structure surrounded by a deep water-filled moat 20 feet wide. The only approach to the heavily defended position was across the courtyard and over a drawbridge leading to a barricaded oaken door. Pfc. Sheridan, realizing that his bazooka was the only available weapon with sufficient power to penetrate the heavy oak planking, with complete disregard for his own safety left the protection of the buildings and in the face of heavy and intense small-arms and grenade fire, crossed the courtyard to the drawbridge entrance where he could bring direct fire to bear against the door. Although handicapped by the lack of an assistant, and a constant target for the enemy fire that burst around him, he skillfully and effectively handled his awkward weapon to place two well-aimed rockets into the structure. Observing that the door was only weakened, and realizing that a gap must be made for a successful assault, he loaded his last rocket, took careful aim, and blasted a hole through the heavy planks. Turning to his company he shouted, "Come on, let's get them!" With his .45 pistol blazing, he charged into the gaping entrance and was killed by the withering fire that met him. The final assault on Frezenberg Castle was made through the gap which Pfc. Sheridan gave his life to create.

[mrostov]

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiib1.htm
WWII Medal of Honor recipients

SPURRIER, JUNIOR J.

Rank and organization: Staff Sergeant, U.S. Army, Company G, 134th Infantry, 35th Infantry Division. Place and dare: Achain, France, 13 November 1944. Entered service at: Riggs, Ky. Birth: Russell County, Ky. G.O. No.: 18, 15 March 1945. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty in action against the enemy at Achain, France, on 13 November 1944. At 2 p.m., Company G attacked the village of Achain from the east. S/Sgt. Spurrier armed with a BAR passed around the village and advanced alone. Attacking from the west, he immediately killed 3 Germans. From this time until dark, S/Sgt. Spurrier, using at different times his BAR and Ml rifle, American and German rocket launchers, a German automatic pistol, and handgrenades, continued his solitary attack against the enemy regardless of all types of small-arms and automatic-weapons fire. As a result of his heroic actions he killed an officer and 24 enlisted men and captured 2 officers and 2 enlisted men. His valor has shed fresh honor on the U.S. Armed Forces.

[RIKA]

Whenever I read of men like these, my spirit is renewed by the honor, courage and dedication of these men. They are the embodiment of the American fighting man's spirit. While they may be physically gone, their memory lives on within me.

RIKA

[mrostov]

The ones with an asterisk next to their names were the ones that died during the action which got them the medal.

There are a many others which earned that medal, and a great many more men who's valor is known but to God.

The reason I posted these was to illustrate by historical example just how effective and important a 'lowly' pistol can be when the chips are really down and the times are really desperate.

[Stillwater]

Thank you Mike.

It's guaranteed that the TARD will not make a respectful post here.

These people are, what the TARD will never be -- Men, with courage, above and beyond, the call of honor and duty.

And, thanks again to GARAND. A person who understands, with Mike, what these citations are all about.

Bill

[Garand]

I remembered that sight from a year or so ago, when this arguement showed up before. I wish I could find that one about the sailor that was a competitive shooter though. His story was hotly disputed when we discussed it before. If I remember correctly he fied about 2 boxes of .45 acp defending the crashed chopper.

[Stillwater]

Originally posted by Garand
I remembered that sight from a year or so ago, when this arguement showed up before. I wish I could find that one about the sailor that was a competitive shooter though. His story was hotly disputed when we discussed it before. If I remember correctly he fied about 2 boxes of .45 acp defending the crashed chopper.

That would be nice if you could find it. And, thank you again for the post.

Bill

[Garand]

Don't forget about a sherriff in Socorro County, New Mexico , Elfego Baca, in 1884 who held off approximately 80 cowboys for 33 hours with a single action hand gun. He fired more than 30 rds wounding 8 and killing 4. It has been reported that there were over 4,000 bullet holes in the building that he sought cover in!

[Stillwater]

Originally posted by Garand
Don't forget about a sherriff in Socorro County, New Mexico , Elfego Baca, in 1884 who held off approximately 80 cowboys for 33 hours with a single action hand gun. He fired more than 30 rds wounding 8 and killing 4. It has been reported that there were over 4,000 bullet holes in the building that he sought cover in!

Yes, I've read that story a long time ago.

Just do a web search using his name and it jumps right up.

http://www.hiltonopen.com/Elfego0401.htm

Bill