12 lbs, front stuffer, horn, powder, ball

[andy]

flints, special tools, patches, etc, or a lb .22 unit and 1500 rds of .22lr ammo? Personally, with a scope and can on the CAR, trigger job, etc, I can make 1500 rds of .22 feed me for 50 years. Since the muzzleloader is at LEAST 8 lbs, more like 10, usually, you dont GET many shots out of the remaining 1-3 lbs of powder and shot. Figuring 1 lb of patches, special tools, powder horn, etc. at 7000 grs in a lb, 70 grs per loading, that's a lousy 100 shots. You AINT gonna make decent FIREARM use black powder. The "corning" of the grains is REALLY dangerous. A 180 grs or so to the ball, you don't get a lot of balls out of a lb of lead, either. Not that lead is all THAT easy to locate, mine, etc. :-) Muzzleloader is a LITTLE KID'S idea of survival gear. WORSE than bow and arrow,even.

[84 C4]

no

[RIKA]

The muzzleloader isn't for shtf. Its a fun gun and can be used for hunting. It makes our frontier heritage come alive for just a little while and every guy (and gal) can be Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett. Shooting the smokepoles takes some skill and patience to learn. Its nasty and noisy and immensely more satisying that sneaking around with an illegal canned CAR. This deer season I'll be taking my Lyman Hawken percussion out for the hunt and you can bet that I'll get my deer. If I kill a raccoon, maybe I'll even make a coonskin hat. That would be a fun project.

Learn to relax and associate with people who know how to have fun. It would really help you.

RIKA :)

[Half elf]

I dropped a nice 6pt buck last year at 75yds using a .54cal CVA caplock. I use round ball, 70grs of FFFg and only mods were a set of fire sights, and a musket nipple. One shot, one kill, ran about 35yds and head first into a tree, was stone dead when I walked up after I reloaded. I like it not for the firepower but the pace, its the difference between comercial and sport fishing or better yet between tournament shooting, and plinking.

[Magnum88C]

Heck, frontstuffers are great fun. Want to blow off some steam? Sound and fury is what smokepoles are all about. Plus, you get another season to go hunt game without the schmucks from the city stomping through the woods (also a good argument for archery season).

[mrostov]

Muzzleloaders give you an extra hunting season in most places - simple as that.

It's not like it used to be. Muzzleloading has gone mainstream.

They are in expensive, require no ID, and a cap lock is pretty weatherproof, 'inlines' that use shotgunshell primers even more so.

Nowadays you can even buy the powder in premeasured, bore diameter, cylindrical capsules that you just put down your barrel without having to really measure anything. You can precharge several loads, with modern jacketed bullets in sabots, and keep them ready to speed load and fire.

[andy]

and they aint a lick better for foraging than a canned .22 auto rifle, and you will abandon them at the first word of shtfj, and properly so. I've never bothered about licenses, seasons, or any sort of rules about hunting, in my entire life. Such "thinking" is completely alien to me. I've always just used ccw pistols, because I wanted to KNOW how they did on flesh and blood. Just that "tactical" decision is enough to "limit" gametaking quite a bit, ya know, even if using lights, bait, and shooting them all year round

[mrostov]

There is a time to violate laws and a time to 'go with the flow'. Maybe you should push the envelope a tad less in some areas.

[Clint Boyer]

I've never bothered about licenses, seasons, or any sort of rules about hunting, in my entire life. Such "thinking" is completely alien to me.

There you go advocating criminal behavior again.

That's why you belong in jail, you think the rules don't apply to you. Typical criminal thinking.

[Stillwater]

[i]
I've never bothered about licenses, seasons, or any sort of rules about hunting, in my entire life. Such "thinking" is completely alien to me. I've always just used ccw pistols, because I wanted to KNOW how they did on flesh and blood.[i]

That is a good summation of your attitude towards society MELVIN.

That is why you have spent a third, or more, of your life in prison.

That is why you are still on parole, for the next twelve years.

That is why you WILL be returned to prison, and will probably spend the rest of you life there, the next time.

[fedupdon]

i showed some friends at TP&W your post the would like you visit they think you could teach them about poachers and how not to get caught.they advised any time after 2 nd sat in nov. they also advise to bring plenty of money and dont bring any guns or cars you want to keep. as they plan on keeping what they take from you

[Aslan]

I wouldn't worry about it. for Andy, all that matters is SHTF - there are many theories on why this is. He also likes drama and to make everything life or death.

The idea that someone may actually do something for sport or enjoyment is a foreign concept to him. (He'll give some whacked out answer that if it's for sport, then only a ccw pistol should matter. whatever)

Given some past exaggerations (like how walking away from a half-way house was a daring prison break - he surrendered to a phone call no less), it's likely that he poached once and this constitutes many years of doing it.

:devil:

[RIKA]

it's likely that he poached once and this constitutes many years of doing it.

:devil:

I'll wager that he burned the egg. :D

RIKA

[Flinter]

When I was a kid we used to poach a lot. There were 9 of us at one time in the house and all the income we had was an Army disability check. Not counting the money us kids could earn working for the neighboring farmers. Without going into a full fledged confession over the 'net we became really good at it. That was back in the late 70's/early 80's though and here in WV they weren't quite as concerned about it as they are today.

I don't think I'd try it today. These guys may be a little more concerned now;

http://www.picyard.com/main/data/500/161TJhooker.jpg

[Aslan]

Well, you don't strike me as one who exaggerates, or that has a chip on his shoulder. Let's just say with all the clues in Andy's posts over the years, his woodmanship skills are in doubt and leave it at that - you can draw your own conclusions.

:devil:

[Flinter]

Let's just say with all the clues in Andy's posts over the years, his woodmanship skills are in doubt and leave it at that - you can draw your own conclusions.

Please don't read my post wrong Aslan. I am fully aware of Andy's shortcomings. I also know that he turns some people off to this board. What I didn't know was just how famous he was. I was chatting with some fellow gun nuts on another boards chatroom a few nights ago and a guy came in asking for opinions on the best all around gun. Another guy recommended a 10" AR with a can. I said "please don't tell me that you post with the name Andy on another board". He LOL'd and told me that he didn't but that he knew exactly who I was referring to. I'm not sure he's hit "Fred" status, but he's further up the troll ladder than I thought.

My whole point was that sometimes people do poach out of necessity. It's not always unscrupulous behavior. I was fortunate (unfortunate??) enough to be raised by a pair of grandparents who still lived a backwoods lifestyle. SHTF was a big part of our daily living. For as poor as we were at times though, we were always taught to treat others with respect, mind our manners and pray every night. That was Granny's doing.

Grandpap taught us to drink our whiskey straight, take care of what was ours and never take **** off of a stranger. Grandpap had a bit of the devil in him. :dgrin:

[Aslan]

Sometimes you do what you have to do. You don't flaunt it, you don't brag about it. That's the difference.

I have nothing but respect for those in this category and nothing but contempt for those that do what they do because they are "above the law" or simply to be jerks.

:devil:

[Chili Willi]

I have had a huge amount of fun over the years with my frontstuffers, from waiting for a nice whitetail in the deep woods of WI,
. to stalking Elk on the western side of the cascades in WA.
I have had one in-line(cva staghorn mag)and did not like it.(personal pref) Went back to my cva hawken. It would not be my first choice for a survival weapon, but I would not in any way feel unarmed and helpless. And, I assure you, I would eat very well, thank you! One overlooked fact about MLs is you need skill and woodcraft to be succesfull. It is a tool, primitive, but still a tool. One shot, one kill. And, GK, I would TAKE your precious silenced .22 off your rapidly cooling body because I have two things you don't have--woodcraft and skill! ( I know--don;t feed the bears OR bait the trolls!)

[Rhino]

and they aint a lick better for foraging than a canned .22 auto rifle, and you will abandon them at the first word of shtfj, and properly so. I've never bothered about licenses, seasons, or any sort of rules about hunting, in my entire life. Such "thinking" is completely alien to me. I've always just used ccw pistols, because I wanted to KNOW how they did on flesh and blood. Just that "tactical" decision is enough to "limit" gametaking quite a bit, ya know, even if using lights, bait, and shooting them all year round

Hey Trollboy, Buggeroff!!

The whole univers is not about SHTF

Hunting with canned AR.22 by a felon is called POACHING and Unlawful use of a weapon by a felon.

But I'll humor the drooling moron.

First of all I use a .62 cal flint fowler. it is 8 lbs, can shoot shot or ballaccurately to 100yds. I dont use a horn and special tools but paper cartridges rolled by yours truly.. Post SHTF you will eventually ru out of ammo, if you live that long, which I doubt.

I can knap flints from a creekbed, make powder from niter, charcoal and sulfer and anything becomes a projectile. Listen closely I'll type slow for you Andrew, I HAVE DONE THESE THINGS!!! THEY ARE NOT A FANTASY< OR THEORY< OR PAGOSA NINJA WANABE CRAP!!

Muskets are fun and useful, and if you were not such a trogladyte you would see it.
Rhino

[Flinter]

First of all I use a .62 cal flint fowler. it is 8 lbs, can shoot shot or ballaccurately to 100yds. Rhino

What make of fowler do you have Rhino?

My fowler is one of my favorite firearms. I've used it for the last 3 rabbit seasons with more success than I used to get out of my modern shotguns. Those patterns really open up!!

[DJetAce]

12lb muzzle loader? That makes a M1 Garand look light. Sounds like someone here don't know much about muzzle loaders.

[Rhino]

What make of fowler do you have Rhino?

My fowler is one of my favorite firearms. I've used it for the last 3 rabbit seasons with more success than I used to get out of my modern shotguns. Those patterns really open up!!

It is a variant of the tulle, French design. It is a custom job that was a gift from a friend who makes them from scratch. I'll try to post pics/ I have used it on rabit, quail, pheasant, coyote, and deer.

Rhino

[Flinter]

I'd like to see that pic. Tulle's are probably my favorite firearm that I don't own. :bawling:

Mines a Pennsylvania fowler, 20 gauge, 46 inch barrel. It was made by one of the last true "backwoodsmen" that I know. This fella just got an indoor toilet 2 years ago!

So far all I've taken with it is rabbits. Hopefully this year I'll get out long enough to kill a deer with it and maybe a turkey. Seems like work picks up for me right at the beginning of hunting season and doesn't let up until after New Years. Last year I got to hunt exactly 3 days. :hot: