shotguns aint for combat, they r for snobs

[andy]

to shoot at flying targets, a GAME, and that's all they are "good" for. Everything else, they are quite inferior to either the pistol or the rifle.

[Garand]

Please list in detail, your combat experience.

[Magnum88C]

Seems to me they're quite effective for getting a felon to give up without a fight when the cops come pointing one at him. . .

[RIKA]

Good answer, Magnum. :D

RIKA

[84 C4]

to shoot at flying targets, a GAME, and that's all they are "good" for. Everything else, they are quite inferior to either the pistol or the rifle.


When Americans introduced the modern shotgun to trench warfare, during WWI, the Germans began complaining that the use of shotguns violated the rules of decency and even attempted to have them banned by the next Geneva Convention.

[mrostov]

Their value in a marine environment is unquestionable.

[DJetAce]

The military uses them. Let's see, we can listen to a wannbe with no combat experience, or we can listen to the Military, the Police, and the thousands of people who keep and use shotguns. Many of these people DO have combat experience. Not a hard choice, mind you.

The CAR is for losers, and that's a fact.

[Garand]

Please specify, "The 11" CAR is for losers", there are some people here that their geographical enviornment is suitable to an AR-15 with a longer barrel.

[Terry G]

No one pointed any shotgun's at John-Boy. Two U.S. Marshal's showed up at the door and said "let's go'. That's all it took. The second time he was arrested by PHONE. "Davis, report to your CMC, NOW!" That's all it took. No "cans" "Phoenix Arms .22 Super Guns", or jumping side kicks, just meek surrender.

[DJetAce]

Garand, does any CAR have a barrel longer than 11.5 inches? I don't think the M4 is a CAR, or the 16 inch AR is a CAR, or just any other AR variant is called the "CAR".

In any case, the 11 inch CAR is for losers!

[84 C4]

No one pointed any shotgun's at John-Boy. Two U.S. Marshal's showed up at the door and said "let's go'. That's all it took. The second time he was arrested by PHONE. "Davis, report to your CMC, NOW!" That's all it took. No "cans" "Phoenix Arms .22 Super Guns", or jumping side kicks, just meek surrender.


That's, er, really pathetic.

[Hard Ball]

Let's not tell the Army and Marines that their 12 gage semiautos are toys for snobs.

[mrostov]

No one pointed any shotgun's at John-Boy. Two U.S. Marshal's showed up at the door and said "let's go'. That's all it took. The second time he was arrested by PHONE. "Davis, report to your CMC, NOW!" That's all it took. No "cans" "Phoenix Arms .22 Super Guns", or jumping side kicks, just meek surrender.


Then why bother with any talk about E&E, guns, etc?

If the actual operational plan is immediate submission and bloodless surrender, then your main SHTF stockpile should be some cash in the bank so you can buy extra snacks and stuff while you are rotting behind bars. That and maybe a white hanky to wave while you're surrendering and some lotion so the handcuffs don't chafe.

What were the reasons for the knock and the phone call, and how much time did each visit land?

IMHO, it's be better to be broke, afoot, and sleeping under a tree down in Mexico or even someplace like Brazil than rotting in a cell. Even if you have to blend in with the poor peasents and forced to go 'native', it's still a life and you still have freedom and the potential for other opportunities.

You don't even have to go that far. Just grab a backpack with the basics and hit the rails. You know how hard it is to track and apprehend hobos? There are wanted members of the FTRA that have been unapprehended for years.

[GBullet]

mrostov, what's the FTRA?

[mrostov]

Freight Train Riders of America - They are sort of like to hobos what the Hells Angels are to motorcycle riders.

[GBullet]

Thanks, I'd never heard of them.

[SatCong]

Andy,
Someone who does not love you must be filling your head with this BS.
SatCong

[Tanis]

personally, i am wondering, who knocked you silly, and made you think shotguns are for snobs.Say an intruder is in your house, if you're a snob, you run and call the cops, and maybe pull out a nickel plated 9mm, anyone normal runs and gets their shotgun, and goes to work, plain and simple. Rednecks are nothing close to snobs, and nearly all have shotguns. :nyah:

[Aslan]

personally, i am wondering, who knocked you silly, and made you think shotguns are for snobs.Say an intruder is in your house, if you're a snob, you run and call the cops, and maybe pull out a nickel plated 9mm, anyone normal runs and gets their shotgun, and goes to work, plain and simple. Rednecks are nothing close to snobs, and nearly all have shotguns. :nyah:

Well, it's been noted in the past that he has used words like "horrendous" to describe the noise and blast from a shotgun. It's also been noted that he accuses everyone of flinching unless they have a suppressor on their gun or are wearing hearing protection.

I suggest you do the math and arrive at your own conclusion as to why he might dislike shotguns so much.

The insults are just there to confuse the issue.

:devil:

[Kpdpipes]

One thing i've noticed, is that no matter HOW big or bad a BG is (Or THINKS he is), his guts turn to water when he hears that distinctive noise...It's utterly amazing how one rathre insignificant mechanical sound can turn a "Mother****er Pig" into " Yessir" :-D

[Garand]

Can't you just imagine all those silly people taking a shotgun into combat!!

[brass hammer]

Freight Train Riders of America - They are sort of like to hobos what the Hells Angels are to motorcycle riders.

i know i shouldn't! but i'll 'share'

about a month ago, i'm out in the middle of[nowhere/somewhere/everywhere] delivering and waiting on the 'nogales express' to pass [it freights at a blazing top end of 7-10 m.p.h, as the entire rail spur is crap! and higher speed is unsafe, i've got it on good authority the 'tie' crew is slated for major upgrades within a year]
so i'm standing in front of my idling delivery-unit watchin' this train pass
and say "WHY NOT?" as there wasn't anybody around! and I RAN-DOWN a rail-car/hitched a ride!!! and let me tell you, it was kinda cool ridin' free for MEXICO and ALL POINTS SOUTH !
but i jumped-off after only 50 yards as i didn't want to have to walk too far back to my 'idling delivery unit' as the run-down awakened my numbpain-filled foot :dgrin: [sometimes i'm glad i won't allow that little part of me to EVER
grow-up] :cool:

[arebindixie]

i know i shouldn't! but i'll 'share'

Congratulations on a comprehensible post.

[RIKA]

Thats cool. Thanks for sharing Brass.

RIKA

[tuna]

My dad worked for the railroad when he was younger and used to talk of it being common to jump on or off a moving train. As a dumb teenager, I decided to try it out. Luckily I listened to the whole story, and "hitting the ground running" actually worked - I found it was easier to jump off than it was to get on the train originally.

[brass hammer]

Congratulations on a comprehensible post.


HEY,PAL! :beer:

[Aslan]

Shotguns can be a very effective CQB weapon. They aren't as versatile as other weapons that fit CQB and larger envelopes of engagement.

They may not be suitable for a 200yd engagement, but in their envelope - you wouldn't want to get hit by one.

The discussion usually gets twisted into a bizarre apples to watermelons comparison. (Usually accompanied by some sort of statement of envy - like the snobs remark.)

:devil:

[Hard Ball]

The US Army used shotguns in combat during World War one, World War Two, Korea, Vietnam and both wars in Iraq. It found them to be very effective.

[brass hammer]

I wish my friends/fellow members could read the GUNS-AMMO combat arms issue "the weapons of the war on terror"

as there is a total/complete BAD-ASSED auto assault-12 SHOTGUN [article]
20 rd drums
[stolen]
FRAG-12
the story gets even better! as it turns out, theres a new family of 12ga. rds
on the U.S. MILITARY HORIZON.
1] FRAG-12 H.E.
2]FRAG-12 H.E. FRAG/ANTIPERSONAL
3]FRAG-12 H.E. ARMOR-PIERCING

it states "maximun effective range of 200 YARDS!"

the "ol'boys" that put that 'rag/ISSUE' together are pretty COOL! :beer:

[Aslan]

But why would the military waste their time - I guess they neglected to consult with "the gun guru"

:devil:

[B.FRANKlin]

Hmmmm. My CAR is a '67 Olds 442 that will blow a GTX off the road...or AMX, GTA, GTO, GTS, Z-28, Muck I Mustwang, and the list goes on & on. But this is a gun forum, Sorry guys. Nyuk! But you have to admit, a 3850# pure stock 400 cid Oldsmobile that turned consistent 13.20 quarter mile ETs is a bad machine! My M1 Garand is a bad machine, too! Badder than an AR, small letter andy!
That'll get him going. Or shouldn't I poke the skunk? lol

[B.FRANKlin]

Oh, I forgot! But How about that new full-auto 12 ga.? What a weed whacker that must be! A full-auto shotgun that can be shot one handed and never needs cleaned OR oiled!!! Yep! It's a reality! And so is M-14s being refurbished for our troops to replace the puny AR!

[brass hammer]

you 'rock' in my 'book' B. FRANKlin! :dgrin:

c.i.d. in engines are awesome!,, I could show you 'blown/builders' of the 400 that would 'rot yer' socks off',,[pun] as these guys are turnin' 750 HORSE-POWER! :cool:

[brass hammer]

heres a link to a picture of the A-A 12

http://world.guns.ru/shotguns/sh29-e.htm

[brass hammer]

and heres a link/picture of the last shotgun i bought

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/3000/3019.htm

[the top one]

[arebindixie]

and heres a link/picture of the last shotgun i bought

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/3000/3019.htm

[the top one]

Awesome. I'm a bit old fashioned, though.

[Garand]

Nothing wrong with a classic shotgun;

[Coyote]

Awesome. I'm a bit old fashioned, though.

Close to what I have for domestic intrusions of the agressive kind. Mines a Norinco 12ga, external hammers. The finish on yours is much nicer however.

[Wylycoyte]

Close to what I have for domestic intrusions of the agressive kind. Mines a Norinco 12ga, external hammers. The finish on yours is much nicer however.

Any particular reason? A pump or semi would probably serve far better in that capacity.

[Coyote]

I know, but I don't have a 12ga pump at the moment, just a 20ga 870 wingmaster with a 26" barrel. It doesn't pack as much punch and its way too long to pie the corners on my staircase with effectively.

The Norinco has 3" chambers and is very compact; at some point I'll get a mossberg but for the time being the SxS does a good job.

[snipe]

Shotguns were made for trench clearing and close combat. In a FIBUA situation, there will usually be atleast one person in the team carrying one (usually the no1 in line). They have proved to be efficient. Of course they're worth crap when the target is at 100 metres, but it's not designed for that.
Now what makes them a joke?
Next thing you know, a thumper (http://www.marcherapple.net/pics/sltie.jpg) is a useless piece of junk.

Here are some of the weapons I use at my unit on exercise or firing range:
C7a1 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as44-e.htm) with the M203 Grenade Launcher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M203.jpg)
C6 heavy machine gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fnmag.jpg)
C9 light machine gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:FN_M249_SAW.gif) (based on the M249)
And of course we include C4 explosives, deta sheets, molded plastics, bangalore torpedoes, etc. fun fun fun :nyah:
Engineers don't use many different weapons

[Garand]

Just curious, how much C4 do you use a year? Can you post some pics?

[snipe]

Just curious, how much C4 do you use a year? Can you post some pics?
I'll check my CDs and post pics and videos... most of which were on my course in Gagetown. Lots of good explosions.
If you've got DivX, this one (http://www.snipingproductions.com/dm21.avi) is a DM21 anti-tank mine we blew under a tank turret.
I really can't tell the ammoutn used in a year since it really varies depending on ressources and training (we use nada when on bridging exercise).
There are 3 engineer units in Quebec, so I can't tell you how much each unit has... Last exercise with C4, we used maybe around 30 blocks, just to clear some obstacles... Some made shaped charges using 1/2 blocks.
Too bad I didn't have my cam with me, my obstacle was a reinforced concrete block, and had 5-1/2 blocks to cut it in the middle. Then some people had extra det cord... then extra C4. More C4... more det cord... So I ended up ith about 8 blocks... was kind of overkilling it if you ask me.
I placed the charge atop the block, and placed the cord so that the path of explosion would direct it to the block. I placed a Tim Horton's coffee cup right next to the charge. Once it had blown, the concrete block had almost vanished, except for the steel. I found the cup 2 meters away, ripped and burnt, but still a bit less than half of it intact. Thought it was pretty amazing that it did so much damage in one direction, and almost none to the sides.

[Garand]

I use about 2 pallets of C4 a year (about 3,200 sticks) along with other assorted foreign munitions, bulk explosives such as RDX, etc, fuel air and thermobaric explosives. Some highlights. Gotta love high speed photography.

[brass hammer]

[QUOTE=Garand]I use about 2 pallets of C4 a year (about 3,200 sticks) along with other assorted foreign munitions, bulk explosives such as RDX, etc, fuel air and thermobaric explosives.

SO? CAN 'you' mail me a 'coffee-cake' TIN,,,AROUND CHRISTMAS, bloke?
as I'VE a 'bean-eatin/ pest-problem!,,, AND IT IS IN 'INVASION-MODE" :dgrin:

[Garand]

I hear your getting 6,000 assistants down your way, all the help you ever wanted!

[brass hammer]

now that is a fricikin' "JOKE"

[do you know what a dozen RANSACKED back-packs WILL DO TO MY DESERT-HOME LAND?,,,it trashes out about 20x20 yards squared in my prestine A.O.] and the 'coyotes' STRIP THEM OF 'ALL SURVIVAL KIT'
{i'm talkin' the 'can of tuna-in-the-sock-routine',,,as these "SCUM" strip them} :rolleyes:

and 36,000 ARMED TROOPS AIN'T NER' ENOUGH !!!

for the 'mouth-full' of the 'HOWARD DEAN' the radical-leftist beaner-bastards
{bogatoa/mexico-city] ARE TRYING TO CRAM/FORCE FEED U.S.!

:rolleyes: :hot:

[RIKA]

Anybody know what kind of training is required to be one of the people who legally demolishes old ramshackle buildings. The videos look cool with the building imploding in on itself.

RIKA

[snipe]

Wow Garand. those are some really good pics. And that's a lot of explosives used... me like! :D

[Garand]

Rika, you would probably get better informtion by contacting people like "Controled Demolitions Inc" in the states and finding out the requirements that they look for. I would suggest contacting http://www.isee.org/ to find the schools that are available. By the way, I am a member.

[RIKA]

Hey thanks Garand. That is a great site and theres a bunch of openings for qualified people.

RIKA :)

[Sundancekid]

to shoot at flying targets, a GAME, and that's all they are "good" for. Everything else, they are quite inferior to either the pistol or the rifle.
I see your point I think, I once shot a DU Sponsor event on Sporting Clays (my first) with my rather well-worn Browning A-5, and those shooting fancy Over-Unders sort of gave me the "poor country cousin at the fancy wedding look". As far as inferior, read Hemingway's African novel "True at First Light" where he used a pumpgun with No. 8 birdshot to finish off a wounded leopard in a mangrove tangle. The only Leopards I've ever seen were in a zoo, never have hunted in Africa- but I'd sooner go quail hunting with V.P. Cheney than have to tangle with any wounded member of the big cat family.

[RorionP]

Shotguns have an intimidation factor. Last summer in the middle of the night I had two guys break into my house. I got up and grabbed my moss 500 and went into the hallway, they had just entered threw the back door and were in the kitchen as I walked towards them in complete darkness I cycled a round in. Then I heard one them say SHOTGUN GO. There ran back outside and down threw the woods. I never even fired a shot... AS far as a shotgun being just a CQB gun well that depends on what people consider close. This is shotgun country here 150-200 yrd shots during deer season are not uncommon and in the woods you cant see much farther than that anyways. If i comes down to the one shot that counts I'd much rather have my 385gr slug hitting my target.

[Sundancekid]

Well, it's been noted in the past that he has used words like "horrendous" to describe the noise and blast from a shotgun. It's also been noted that he accuses everyone of flinching unless they have a suppressor on their gun or are wearing hearing protection.

I suggest you do the math and arrive at your own conclusion as to why he might dislike shotguns so much.

The insults are just there to confuse the issue.

:devil: You are indeed a "King of the world hombre" and this panty-waisted pussy Andy- his unmitigated BS is beyond believe- If you ever pulled guard duty at dark 2400 (I did at Great Lakes l959) and out of the dead dark of that evil night- hear a slide racking a round of 00 buckshot into the chamber of a pump shotgun- if that don't make you freeze in your tracks and **** your skivvies- you are already dead my friend- Sundance!!

[VerySpecialK]

Shotguns have an intimidation factor. Last summer in the middle of the night I had two guys break into my house. I got up and grabbed my moss 500 and went into the hallway, they had just entered threw the back door and were in the kitchen as I walked towards them in complete darkness I cycled a round in. Then I heard one them say SHOTGUN GO. There ran back outside and down threw the woods. I never even fired a shot... AS far as a shotgun being just a CQB gun well that depends on what people consider close. This is shotgun country here 150-200 yrd shots during deer season are not uncommon and in the woods you cant see much farther than that anyways. If i comes down to the one shot that counts I'd much rather have my 385gr slug hitting my target.

You are correct, my friend, about the intimidation factor. Any self respecting bad guy that has seen the damage done by a shotgun full of 00 buckshot at close range, has no desire to see that same damage done to him... Ouch!

[fedupdon]

Neighbor Kills Man Who Was Chasing down Donut Shop Owner

Last Edited: Friday, 09 May 2008, 8:29 AM CDT
Created: Friday, 09 May 2008, 8:04 AM CDT

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A man who police said tried to steal a car from outside a Fort Worth donut shop ended up losing his life.

Fort Worth police said the masked man was trying to steal a Toyota Camry in the parking lot of the Happy Donuts shop in the 100 block of Roberts Cut Off Road.

The owner of the west Fort Worth shop, Angel Randle, was at work and ran outside to try and stop the suspected thief.

But Randle said the man whom she believed was armed with a gun backed her into the shop where they struggled.

The man roughed up her up but she was able to get away and ran back outside screaming.

A neighbor who lives across the street heard the screams and grabbed his shotgun.

The neighbor shot the suspect who died on the scene before police arrived. The donut shop owner said she's grateful that her neighbor took action.

"I'm so glad that I got a good neighbor, so he help me very much," said Angel Randle. "He care about us, watch out for us always."

Randle suffered some minor injuries but didn't go to the hospital. She went right back to work and said that she had some orders to deliver and couldn't disappoint her customers.

Police said the suspect's gun turned out to be fake.

[Jorge_Banner]

Police said the suspect's gun turned out to be fake.

I hope that doesn't matter, at all. In my book, fake gun in the commission of a crime is exactly the same as a true, perfectly working one.

[cutter]

Most local PD's in the US see it the same way. For that matter, so do I. Of course, I take the position that if someone is stupid enough to point a fake gun at me, then they are stupid enough to be shot by a real one and therefore removed from the gene pool.

[Kpdpipes]

Most local PD's in the US see it the same way. For that matter, so do I. Of course, I take the position that if someone is stupid enough to point a fake gun at me, then they are stupid enough to be shot by a real one and therefore removed from the gene pool.

+100 of course some anti-gun do-gooders, or the local version of Al Sharpton will make an issue of it, but the PD probably wont. For the record, if you perform a robbery with a block of wood shaped like a handgun here there's NO DIFFERENCE charge-wise, you are charged and prosecuted as if you were armed with a live handgun. it goes to Intent.

[fedupdon]

looks like that the shotgun won this round fake gun or not

[warriorscreed]

in todays warfair where the long shot is pretty much across the room or in an alley. it plays a very very big role in todays warfare. i mean hell if you are 3 or 30 you know the sound of a shotgun and as far as in my living room some one trying to enter or leave which ever the case doesnt stand much of a chance. so yes if i were a service man kicking in doors i would opt for a shotgun no better purpose for it than clearing a room.

[SurviveNthrive]

Fallujah...they went house by house, room by room.

That's shotgun territory.

The problem is nothing does everything...that's why the military should find a compromise firearm like a 6.8 mm with a carbine length barrel.

[cutter]

Kpd,
As I understand it, the "finger in the jacket pocket" routine counts the same as a real gun to the DA around here. It should.

[noregrets77]

I plan on getting a sawed off shotgun for home protection.

[gripper]

I am guessing you mean to get a "minimum legal length" shottie for hearth and home...all kidding aside;an 18 inch tube on a smoothbore does not feel unduly long. There may be a minimum overall length ( I forget what it actaully is) so don't do any workbench mods yourself-shop around and get a Mossie or some other riot gun.Plenty of them are marketed just for those seeking a house gun;no need to tempt an overzealous apparatcnik with th elow hanginf fruit of an easy prosecution.

[gripper]

Damn ,this keyboard is crap;sorry for the typos.:unhappy:

[neolithic hunter]

Damn ,this keyboard is crap;sorry for the typos.:unhappy:


thats it blame it on the equipment, after all its never an operator problem.

another thing you mite want to consider when using a shotgun in combat or at home. now this is for ya'll that don't really know about shotguns. you have to keep your nose pointed a ceiling at all times, its one of them snooty shotgun things and the shotgun will not work properly if you don't. in particular you double gun shooters, after all your using what is without question, a firearm that can only be shot at birds and such. just something to consider.:nuts:

[Garand]

Funny, on my Winchester M97's, I keep my eye on the bead rather than the ceiling. On 2, the barrels have been cut to 16 6/10" and internal screw-in chokes added. They are old, yes, they aren't fancy but I use them in Cowboy Action and 3 gun competition at least 10-15 times a year minimum. With practice comes proficiency, that's the important point. New and improved is not always better. Technology cannot replace skill!

[neolithic hunter]

ya garand i got me one of them Chinese 97 knock off trench guns. it was a piece of crap till i sent to a friend of mine thats really good with old shotguns. not that thing is slick a butter, shoots from the hip like it should. the friend of mine told me it looked like they forgot to finish it. he said there was enough metal left in it to build a 58 Buick.

[noregrets77]

I am guessing you mean to get a "minimum legal length" shottie for hearth and home...all kidding aside;an 18 inch tube on a smoothbore does not feel unduly long. There may be a minimum overall length ( I forget what it actaully is) so don't do any workbench mods yourself-shop around and get a Mossie or some other riot gun.Plenty of them are marketed just for those seeking a house gun;no need to tempt an overzealous apparatcnik with th elow hanginf fruit of an easy prosecution.

Well the one I was looking at was a pistol grip 20 gauge an I think the barrel was about 3 inches from the pump and the hole gun is desert camo.

[gripper]

Try to get one with a 3 inch chamber;it will give you more options RE ammo /availability.
Never been my first choice(shotties) ,but that said;they are VERY good in s number of situations. Nothing you'd wantr to get on th ewrong side of:dgrin:

[brass hammer]

I plan on getting a sawed off shotgun for home protection.



well, now-HOLD ON!!!,,,mister 'noregrets77'

as that is HEAVY-DUTY,,,'slammer-time'[OH-YES.]

although, "iffin" one wished to pursue that vector, I SPIED[hell,I played with it for 10 minutes] a DOUBLE-BARRELED 26.5 MM chink flare pistol[all-steel],,,and easily sleeved for 12 ga. @ $325

[a total rarity in this day and age , as the ship was sent to the bottom of the sea with the MAJORITY of production, prior to WWII] jap-copy.

[Kpdpipes]

Well the one I was looking at was a pistol grip 20 gauge an I think the barrel was about 3 inches from the pump and the hole gun is desert camo.

Sounds like the Mossberg "Cruiser" model. GTG then

[noregrets77]

well, now-HOLD ON!!!,,,mister 'noregrets77'

as that is HEAVY-DUTY,,,'slammer-time'[OH-YES.]

although, "iffin" one wished to pursue that vector, I SPIED[hell,I played with it for 10 minutes] a DOUBLE-BARRELED 26.5 MM chink flare pistol[all-steel],,,and easily sleeved for 12 ga. @ $325

[a total rarity in this day and age , as the ship was sent to the bottom of the sea with the MAJORITY of production, prior to WWII] jap-copy.

I have no idea what your talking about.

[Kpdpipes]

I have no idea what your talking about.

Most people dont..but he grows on you after a while...kind of like Mold :dgrin:

ANYWAY what brass was trying to say was that a true "Sawed-Off" shotgun would mean a violation of the NFA, and a stay in Club Fed of 10 years per violation.

[BigEd63]

Unless of course you live in a state that "allows" you to own a NFA registered one.

And want to do all the paper work and waiting.

[DaRkWoLf]

Unless of course you live in a state that "allows" you to own a NFA registered one.

And want to do all the paper work and waiting.

Form a trust or corporation. Your wait will be three to six weeks in my experience. You also don't need to be printed or have a CLEO signature. You may also decide who may use it in the trust. A privately owned NFA item can only be handled by the registered owner, not even a wife or offspring.

Last can was four weeks with our trust. Dealer transfer was six days.

Two hundred dollars for a short barrel is a pain in the rear though. I've always thought 18.5 was fine on a shotgun; it's not like one can suppress them well and need room on the end. Maybe for a dedicated breacher?

[Kpdpipes]

Unless of course you live in a state that "allows" you to own a NFA registered one.

And want to do all the paper work and waiting.


True Ed, my mistake for leaving that part out.