Shotgun for Bird Hunting, Sporting Clays, Trap and Skeet???

[Glenn Bartley]

I am thinking of getting into a more varied use of a shotgun, and am also planning on starting my son off with sme shotgunning. I am looking for an all around shotgun for these types of shooting: Bird Hunting, Sporting Clays, Trap and Skeet. I am not interested in any recommendations as to the gauge, that will either be 12 gauge or 20 gauge (almost definitely the 12 gauge).

What I would like to get some ideas on are the types of shotgun best suited to all those kinds of shooting.

I have a few limitations that any shotgun has to fall under, the primary being price. I am currently thinking of a new shotgun, either an o/u or semi-auto, at a price of under $750 if there actually is one at that price that fits the bill for the type of shooting we will want to do. I have looked at some of the prices of new guns from whom I consider to be reputable manufacturers and I think I may be dreaming for anything in that price range regarding an o/u or a semi-auto.

1) Would a semi-auto, an over&under, or pump be the best (no sxs, or single shots will be considered at this point).

2) If I do decide on either an o/u or a semi-auto instead of a pump gun, are there any that fall into my price range while being a good gun.

Thanks for any help on this one.

Glenn B

[brass hammer]

YOU will NEVER regret buying a quality over/under 12ga.


skb/ithaca/browning/citori

if a persons -ever- shouldered a 12ga. as these, they 'should' be HOOKED'



[deleted] thanks.

[Glenn Bartley]

If I could afford one, I would shell out for a Beretta.

[Magnum88C]

Davidsons is showing Remington model 1100s on sale for $583. Even off-sale, they should be under your price limit. They are good semi-autos, limited to 2 3/4" shells, but despite what some people (most notably those in gun magazines and hunting shows, whose sponsors are gun companies and ammo manufacturers) think, 2 3/4" shells can be plenty effective hunting or busting clay.

Davidsons (http://www.galleryofguns.com/GunLocator/gunsearch/Product.asp?Manuf=&item_num=5369&index=4&max=20&start=20&instock=None&manufact_combo=Remington&mod_ser_combo=1100&category_combo=None&model=None&g_type=None&act_type=None&finish_type=None&calib_combo=12+Gauge&sight_class_combo=None&price_range=None&qPromoID=&EZ=&left_handed=&youth=&item_only=0&oldsql=WHERE+%28unk2+like+%27%251%27+or+unk2+like+ %27%252%27%29++AND+manuf+like+%27%25Remington%25%2 7++AND++%28Inventory%2Emodel%5Fseries+%3D+%271100% 27+OR+Inventory%2Emodel%5Fseries+like+%271100%7C%2 5%27+OR+Inventory%2Emodel%5Fseries+like+%27%25%7C1 100%27%29+AND++%28Caliber+like+%2712+Gauge%7C%25%2 7+or+Caliber+like+%27%25%7C12+Gauge%27+or+Caliber+ %3D+%2712+Gauge%27%29+ORDER+BY+manuf%2C+unk2%2C+un k3)

[.45 COLT]

If you want to shoot skeet, a pump (my favorite) would make the doubles tough. I'd get the 1100 autoloader. The Synthetic has a MSRP of $549 and you can probably get a wood stocked one with all the chokes and still be under your price limit. And yes, 2 3/4" shells will handle almost any hunting scenario. For waterfowl, you might wind up in a handloading situation. I don't know if anybody loads non-toxic in 2 3/4". I don't hunt waterfowl and I load all my own anyway, so I'm not really up on that.

DC

[andy]

A used M1100 in 20 ga, $300 or less, from a private party, at least) would be the thing for the boy, 3/4 oz skeet loads being readily available for it. Cut the stock to fit him, and and a recoil pad. Dont risk inculcating a flinch by beating on him. insist on ear and eye protection,of course. Start with one of the staked down throwing machines, locked for "straightaway floaters", so he will nearly always hit the bird. After he gets bored with that, have HIM move for angled shots, keep the thrower the same. Then change the angles and elevation ofthe thrower, etc. It gets REAL expensive, real fast, paying for both birds and shotshells, long before you get into the real deal skeet, especially the doubles.

[Magnum88C]

Remington does make their Nitro-Steel line in 2 3/4" shells. I'm sure Winchester and Federal have their respective lines in non-toxic shot.

The 20-ga would be the best choice for learning, but if you don't want to have to buy the 12 ga gun later, have him cut his teeth on low brass target loads. They don't really kick much, if any more than standard 20-ga loads. I'd also see about getting a "bantam" or "youth" stock set for it. You can always put the standard stocks back on when he grows.

[RIKA]

I recommend the Remington 1100 also.They are sooo beautiful and so affordable. They are common enough that you should get one at a good price leaving money for shells and clay birds.

RIKA

[jimgard]

Glenn, I would recommend the 1100 also. I would stay w/ an Auto or O/U for trap or sporting clays.
There is a company producing O/U's that are running in the 300-400 range, I just can't remember the name - I believe they are from Turkey. I looked over a couple recently - very good quality w/ a set of choke tubes. Traditions also has a O/U that is close to your range.

Side note - I have a couple of different 12 gauge shotguns for hunting. I reached an age where I wanted one good gun for most everything. Hunting, trap, sporting clays.
I shot several different brands, Beretta 686's, Browning Citori mainly. I settled on a Ruger Red-label. I shoot south-paw and Beretta have 4 degree pitch for right handed shooter, Browning 5-6 degrees. I just couldn't shoot them as well. The Ruger has no pitch - straight stock - It improved my Sporting Clays score vastly. For Southpaw shooting I would recommend looking into this before buying. Some shooters the pitch doesn't effect.

Jim

[Glenn Bartley]

Lotsof you sure favor the 1100 series. I will cosider that. I was also considering the O/Us from Huglu (I think this is the Turkish company), and from European American Arms. I may have to go with the Remington though as the warranty with an American made product would likely be better, and I think or at least hope that quality contol would be better too. The Huglu's, though, will need to be looked at.

As to fitting the stock to my son, he is pretty big. I am pretty sure he can handle a full sized 12 gauge, especially an auto loader which would kick a whole lot less than a pump gun - especially using bird or skeet loads. I will let him shoot the pump gun first with some 00 Buck and some slug to see how he reacts, then with #9 shot in a game load, then an auto at a gun shop. It promises to be an education for both of us, but I know how to hold the gun to greatly reduce the felt recoil and I will teach him likewise. Maybe many would do that in reverse from my order, but I am pretty sure he will be ok shooting the heavier loads first as long as I prepare him properly. Once he learns how to handle the heavier loads with the greater recoil, then he will be ready for the lighter stuff, which he will then handle that like a charm - almost second nature after the heavier loads. Works every time with someone who really wants to shoot.

[Magnum88C]

I will let him shoot the pump gun first with some 00 Buck and some slug to see how he reacts, then with #9 shot in a game load, then an auto at a gun shop. It promises to be an education for both of us, but I know how to hold the gun to greatly reduce the felt recoil and I will teach him likewise. Maybe many would do that in reverse from my order, but I am pretty sure he will be ok shooting the heavier loads first as long as I prepare him properly. Once he learns how to handle the heavier loads with the greater recoil, then he will be ready for the lighter stuff, which he will then handle that like a charm - almost second nature after the heavier loads. Works every time with someone who really wants to shoot.

Nope, I think it's a good idea. I do the same thing with handguns. I start 'em out with .45s usually, in a nice, full sized gun, and go from there. As an aside, the only people I've known who think the .45 kicks hard in a full sized gun are those that started out with .22s. It handicaps them into wanting something that doesn't kick anymore or make more noise than a .22. Like you said, start out with the real deal, and the lesser ammo will feel like a breeze.

As for EAA, their guns are made in Russia by Baikal. They aren't bad guns, their fit and finish leaves a bit to be desired, but they're built like tanks. Only problem is, they handle like tanks, which wouldn't be conducive to any of the clay sports or bird hunting. I have no idea about the Turk gun, but I'd probably avoid it out of hand. Just a prejudice on my part there...

[Gun_crazy_JR]

I started with dads tarsus .45

[SatCong]

I don't shoot clays, but a buddy of mine who does like to, and whose wife is an "anti", regularly borrows my High Standard 12 ga. auto with vent rib and old school poly-choke. He says he shoots competitively with the gun, -as well as most of the guys with those hi-end guns, and better than most. If it's reliable, the rest is up to the shooter, so teach him well, Dad!
SatCong

[andy]

don't beat him up with buck or slugs, until he's PROVEN not to flinch with regular loads. Do that by letting him take the gun from you, without his knowing whether or not it's loaded. Watch the muzzle carefully, sometimes loading it, sometimes not, and also watch his face, for grimaces or batting of the eyes. ********************************

[Terry G]

DC[/QUOTE]Glen, you'll have no trouble finding non-toxic shot in 2 3/4". All the large ammunition manufacturers make it. It's available evrywhere. I actually use Bismuth my Browning A-5. It's pricey but more effective than steel for waterfowl. Remington's are great, affordable guns.

[Garand]

Personally I wouldn't touch a Remington 1100 if you paid me to. We had 2 remington 1100's on the EOD team that I was on. In 4 years neither would work reliably with a variety of different brands of ammo. They were exceptionally well maintained. Sorry, unreliable firearm!

[Temujin]

For the type of shooting you'll be doing I highly recommend Browning shotguns. Check out their entire line and see what you think.

www.browning.com

They are rather expensive, but they are ultra-reliable from my experience, and at least for me - they're the "fastest handling" shotguns I've ever owned.

You can get them for a very reasonable price used.

[ghostrider]

what nobody likes the 870 remingtons bread and butter its a great all around gun and has lots of mod capabilities too
i own the 12 version and my 10 year old bro shoots the 20 youth model

[Magnum88C]

what nobody likes the 870 remingtons bread and butter its a great all around gun and has lots of mod capabilities too


He is(was) talking about teaching his son on it. Autos reduce the felt recoil quite a bit over a pump gun.

I think a lot of people here like a trombone gun (I use and 870 Police Magnum, that I bought a spare Remchoke barrel for), but that isn't always the best to learn on.

[Glenn Bartley]

We went out today to get some shooting dome. It was a 45 mile drive to a range at which we could shoot trap and skeet, and I took along the Remington 870. We had two types of shells, doesn't matter what type for now but they were both target loads. I had planned to start him with heavier loads, but that did not pan out.

Today we decided to shoot trap. This was Brendans first experience with the shotgun except maybe for one shot I had him take some years ago. I shot the first 15 rounds of our first set of 25 rounds. It was a wakeup call for me. I only hit 1 out of 25. I have not shot at clay for many years, but that is no excuse. Oh well, I'll get better, and I still hit game when I aim at it so go figure. As for Brendan he hit 2 out of the first ten targets. Then we wiated through another et and a different group of shooters. When his turn came up again, he shot all 25 shells for a complete set. He got it that second time around and hit 11 out of 25 as per the range officer's count or 12 out of 25 by my count. Not bad for a first time out. This was loading only one round at a time so no follow up shots if you missed with the first one. Brendan enjoyed it as much as anything I have ever seen him enjoy. I had a ball standing off his right shoulder, or just behind him, coaching him. All the coaching in the world though cannot get him to hit the target, that part was up to him, and he diod fine for a first time out. A skeet instructor who was there said Brendan really seemed to get it right as he improved near the end of the set with good consistent consecutive hits. I can only hope he does as well or better next time; and yes there will be plenty of next times.

It cost $5.00 per set of 25 rounds with them supplying the range, the targets, and the operator/range officer; while we supplied the gun and the ammo. I guess that could get expensive once the addiction sets in, so I guess I'll just have to start saving $5.00 here and there.

Brendan liked the pump gun. he figured it fit him well, and there was not too much recoil. Said the shoulder hurt a little when he was done, but I guess that is to be expected. It would have hurt more had he not held the shotgun properly.

If he keeps it up over the next few trips to this particular range then I'll be looking for that shotgun for him in the near future. I am leaning toward the Rem 1100, but who knows it could be a pump gun or an O/U.

[Garand]

I personally dislike the Remington 1100. This goes back to my days working on an EOD team. I always found it exceptionally unreliable and very ammunition sensitive. We used them on our RMI's (Remote Mechanical Investigators) to disrupt IED's and for "shotgun familiarization" training which just happened to coincide with duck season :) :) :) If you were willing to kick out the bucks for high quality ammo, it worked but never with the cheap, low brass variety. The shotgun was also very well maintained. I own 2 types of shotguns now, Winchester M97's & Mossberg M500's.

[GBullet]

Glenn, I'm glad that he enjoyed y'all's outing so much!

Let me offer some thoughts:

1) Using the best hearing protection available (biggest dB rating) will reduce the likelyhood of flinching.

2) A quality recoil pad will also help a lot.

3) Gas-operated auto's have much less felt recoil.

4) If recoil is still a concern, consider using 20 ga. (i.e. a 20 ga. gas-operated auto)

GB

[RIKA]

Sorry to be a dissenter but I like the Rem 1100 LT20 with the Browning A5 right behind it. That said, my personal protection shotgun is a Rem 870 Police model.

Afterthought: Perhaps the older (70's) 1100s are more reliable than the newer models or perhaps the cold affects them badly.

RIKA

[Magnum88C]

From my experience, Remington autoloaders aren't reliable with low brass rounds, they really need fairly stout loads. I do hear that they function with "low recoil" buck, although I don't use such.

The only autoloader I still have is my Sportsman-58, since it was my first shotgun. Rem 870s and Mossy 590s do my HD work, and a spare barrel for the 870 does hunting duty.

If that's an option Glenn, you might look into a used autoloader, there's plenty out there that are very good, probably even better than what's being put out today.

[Glenn Bartley]

Regarding flinching, I don't think there was any of that going on, at least not after the first few shots. What would be more likely than flinching would be anticipation of the recoil which is not really flinching as I see it, more a pulling down of the gun, but probably has a very similar effect. I sure don't do either except on very rare occasion, and I did not see Brendan doing any of it. I am quite adept at picking out mistakes made when shooting a pistol, rifle or shotgun with regards to shooters being afraid of recoil as I have instructed for about 15 years, and Brendan did not seem to have any problems there.

As for recoil and its effects on the shoulder that is not a problem for me at all, heck I usually shoot only 00 Buck or Slugs out of 870s and sometimes wind up with nice bruises if the gun slips out of the pocket while shooting rapidly during tactical phases of a shoot. Since it is a combat type shoot I don't bother to reseat the gun in the pocket, I just keep firing as fast as I can. I'll regret that when I am older, maybe when Arthur Itis moves in. As for Brendan, the recoil was not too much of a problem. Granted he said his shoulder was a little sore yesterday and still a little sore today, but he fired his first 35 rounds yesterday through an 870, and then played a roller hockey game. Despite all that he asked me if we are going out to shoot again next weekend! I don't think a bit of recoil will bother him too much. He is eager to keep at this. Next week maybe we will try skeet too. As long as he learns how to hold the gun in the pocket he will have few if any problems with sore shoulders from recoil with target loads. I am also figuring that any recoil felt now will get him ready for larger stuff later, such as when he can legally shoot a large caliber rifle here in the Libs RepubLICK of NY!

As for the choice of a gun, well I am fairly picky and am the all time great procrastinator. It will probably be months before I buy another shotgun, so I have time to decide; or maybe I should say because it will take me so long to decide, I won't buy a gun for a while. Of course we may just come across a gotta have one all of a sudden and we will go for it - who knows.

Besides the 1100, I am also considering buying some others. Some of the earlier mentioned less expensive O/Us are a possibility, as are some older shotguns that would possibly fall under the C&R regs. I am getting a little more leery of the 1100, as it seems more people have warnings about them. Heck I may just get him another 870. Time and my wallet at the time will tell.

I'll let you know how it goes next time we shoot.