Limited to 3 Arms

[hipster]

Ok here is a good question to post (at least I think) after a long time away from hunting (numerous reasons) I will finally be able to pursue going afield again soon. I sold all my firearms back in 1998, realistically I had too many at that time. I would like to have some input on my thoughts on what I have concluded. For Deer, Moose and the like I have two options 30-06 or 300 WSM in a good bolt action. For the flying stuff a good quality 12 gauge pump with screw in tubes. Lastly a nice bolt action .22 rim fire for tree rats, rabbits and the like. The 12 and the .22 are easy choices for me but the rifle is not.

I have owned and shot game with both the 30-06 and .300 Win mag and I must admit I preferred the 30-06. The 300 Win never ever let me down but it did vaporize a couple of deer that were well within 30-06 range. I limit myself to distance I can shoot I am reasonable in field situations to about 250 yards if I have a rest. Outside of that I try to get closer or pass up the shot. I have read much about the 300 WSM seems it just a hair better than the 300 Win Mag with velocity and such but is more accurate on average (shorter case better burn and so on) and it uses less powder. Does any one here have experience with the 300WSM? I am excited about it but does it really offer any more to me than the good old 06? I am kind of torn between tried tested and true & fancy and new. Any input from knowledgeable hunters and shooters would be greatly appreciated

[Aslan]

Both the 30-06 and the 300 wsm are good choices. (I guess you've already ruled out any of the 7mm's)

Ammo for the 30-06 can be found just about anywhere on the face of the earth. There's not a whole that can't be killed with the '06, and a wide variety of bullet wts can be had.

The 300WSM will shoot flatter with the same wt bullets than the 06 will. Don't know how plentiful ammo is. (If you are planning to reload, then that may be less of an issue)

Either choice would work.

:devil:

[andy]

If all I was trying to reach was at most 300m, I'd go with a 308 auto,preferably the alloy framed BAR. Why pay more for the ammo than the 308 milsurp, for practicing? why get beaten up by the 300 bolt action? Why be without a fast followup shot, to stop a fleeing cripple, or if need be, a bear charge, or men? I'm not sure if the BOSS compensator is available on the alloy framed version, but I'd probably have it custom-added if it aint. The abilithy to "tune" the barrel for best accuracy with a given bullet and load would be nice.

[John in AR]

I confess a preference for military-standard calibers also. In .308, the Hornady Light Magnum is basically identical to the .30-06, and the .308 also lets you shoot cheap stuff if you want to. The .308 is the heaviest rifle caliber I shoot anymore; I had a BAR in .300 win mag, but sold in nearly ten years ago, as there's nothing in Arkansas I need that much power for and ammo was ridiculously expensive. With the .308, I keep a couple boxes of Hornady LM's, and a fair amount of cheaper stuff, both sp and ball.

A bolt-action is one of the slowest action types, but that really may not matter to you too much in a hunting-only gun. If you want faster follow-up shots, an auto is best, followed by a pump, then a lever-action, and then the bolt-action. Obviously, this is somewhat subjective; you may be quicker with a levergun than a pump gun.

If the way you word it: "...I have two options .30-06 or .300 WSM..." means you have your choice just between these two, I'd very strongly recommend the .30-06. It can take any North American game animal, and you can find it at most any gunshop, walmart, and Billy-Ray's bait shop; not so the .300 WSM or WSSM or whatever.

Definitely, a good .22 rifle is a very versatile gun, and one of the basic "must haves", imo.

I'm no help with shotguns; just not a shotgun guy. Other than to say stick with either a 12 or a (less desirable) 20-gauge, for the sake of power and ammo choice & availability.

[TODD 3465]

Given the 2 choices I'd go with the '06.

BTW- If you know where to look surplus '06 still pops up from time to time.

[Glenn Bartley]

I don't know about the WSM, however I say ditto on the last post because of the availability of inexpensive ammo, and ammo that is found everywhere. Then again I have to agree with the others about a .308 if you would consider one, I think a gun in that caliber is a better choice, and since you think an 06 is enough gun then so would be a .308..

[hipster]

Went to Hornady and I looked at the ballistics charts and I compared the two (went to Winchester's site as well) the light mag loadings in 30-06 are impressive and are less expensive than the short mag. The 308 light mags look good too I must admit. What really impressed me were the Trajectory figures for the 06 are about an inch between 150, 165 and 180 grain bullets at 300 yards velocity and energy are nice too at these ranges. Pushes the good old 06 near what the 300 win mag does with factory loadings. I could in theory get the performance of both 06 and 300 win mag in one rifle just by using light mag and standard ammo.” Sold to the man needin a rifle" now I am excited. Just wish it was easy pickin a good bolt rifle (so many to choose from) any recommendations?

Autos just aint my thing I had a couple Rem auto loaders one in 06 and one in 6mm Rem nice weapons but they caused me to take chances on shots and I did loose a couple of animals. I was in my early 20's and figured that I was much better with a rifle than I actually was. After the cockiness left I found myself much better off with a bolt and became a much better shooter and a better hunter to boot. I made some rules for myself and I follow them and they work for me. It is kind of funny I started off with the "old mans" bolt 30-06 when I was 16, went through a wack of rifles that I never spent enough time shooting to get good with them. Now I am back to the 30-06 makes me wonder.

[hipster]

Sorry John I forgot to answer your question. What I meant by options (poor wording on my part) should have been preferences. I do like 30 cal rifles because they work and have done very well for a long time. With the game I will be after next season I don't feel comfortable with anything smaller in caliber (not for lack of fine calibers) just personal preference. I live in Canada and our whitetails can get huge in many provinces (Saskatchewan, Alberta, Manitoba northern Ontario and Québec). Moose are just plain huge no mater were they are found and black bears are tough critters.

[andy]

Moose are creatures of thick woods, so it's not like it's difficult to get close to them. Archers, pistoleros, muzzleloader guys take them all the time, with loads that have many times less power than a 308 softpoint has.

[Magnum88C]

Go with the '06. A good bolt gun won't beat you up with the '06, and there's really nothing on this half of the planet the '06 won't take, especially at 250 yards. It's inexpensive ammowise, and it has one of, if not the best selections of bullets out there.

[hipster]

Andy how much actual moose hunting have you done? Yes you can find them in thick woods you can also find them on the other side of bogs and ponds, not to mention browsing new regrowth on the wooded sides of clear cuts or in hilly terrain. I sometimes find it tough to get close to Moose when hunting them. I have no access to surplus ammo so the 308 is a mute point for me, the 06 has more all around than the 308 with factory loadings. I wont be "rolling my own" so factory ammo is the only option I have. Andy could you come up here and have a word with Canadian Moose and tell them they are short range targets that would help me a lot. I have taken 7 Moose in the years I was hunting and got skunked two years in a row because those bulls were much to far away for my average shooting skills.Andy do you have any information on Deer and Black Bears?

[Aslan]

What part of Canada are you from? My wife is from Winnipeg and still has family there...

:devil:

[hipster]

Born in the Maritimes grew up there but have lived all over in the past 13 years (work moves) Lived In Sask, Alberta and a year in Atlanta.Currently in Ontario (to stay I hope transfers are a pain) Man!!!! Manitoba has awesome hunting for whitetails and Moose and Bears in the north. I don't know what the nonresident hunting regs or license fees are but if you ever get a chance to hunt there you will have a memorable experience even if you don't get any game.

[jimgard]

hipster, Picking a good bolt action rifle is tough. There are alot to choose from.
I would check out the different ones Remington,Ruger,Winchester, so forth to see what fits you and feels the best.

I have always favored the 06 - I have hunted with a Remington Pump 760 since I was 15. It's been a faithful companion all these years.

my B-N-L just went thru the same hunt for a rifle. He settled for a Savage Model 111 in 30-06. I think for the money - you can't hardly beat them.

Jim

[Aslan]

Manitoba requires that I hunt with a licensed guide...

Which adds considerably to the cost of hunting there.

:devil:

[andy]

info on them as in what? Sounds like you need to access better game country, or do better pre-season scouting, or learn a bit more about either stand hunting or stalking. Both deer and bear are pretty easy to bait into easy range. It's even legal to do so in some areas. :-)

[Aslan]

info on them as in what? Sounds like you need to access better game country, or do better pre-season scouting, or learn a bit more about either stand hunting or stalking. Both deer and bear are pretty easy to bait into easy range. It's even legal to do so in some areas. :-)

I think he was poking fun at you, after showing you to be a little wrong about the moose.

:devil:

[hipster]

I think he was poking fun at you, after showing you to be a little wrong about the moose.

:devil:


LOL You got it!
Just to give a bit if info to you Andy. I live in amazing game country, there are whitetails everywhere and I am only 2-1/2 hour’s drive from ok Moose country and about 5-6 hours from prime Moose habitat. I hunt using "fair chase" methods. If I do any bear hunting in future bating might be an option but I have much more desire to spot and stalk a large "blackie" in the foot hills of western Canada.

I have used both stand hunting and still hunting and have had success with both. I would normally employ both in a hunting season as I usually pick two different locations in my hunting area one for a stand and one for still hunting. If the stand area is slow I switch to still hunting or vice versa. This method has worked very well for me in the past and keeps me from getting complacent as a hunter. I have had my best success on whitetails using still hunting in "open woods" between feeding and bedding areas. Shots are never too distant and I find these areas are awesome spots to see bucks in the peak of rut. There is enough cover in mature open woods to move around in a semi stealth fashion. Deer are some what less on alert in these areas too, but as these are travel areas they seldom stop walking going back and forth. Shots at bucks in these areas are close and sometimes heart pounding experiences. A grunt call sometimes works wonders stopping a rutting buck that is trailing a doe, problem is sometimes he gets a bead on you and vanishes.

[hipster]

Well Jim you are right tough to pick a rifle. There are so many choices from all over the world. I have been a long time fan of the model 70 (first rifle I ever hunted with). But Savage, Remington, Ruger and all the others have something to offer. I am quite sure I will return to the model 70 in the Classic stainless version even though I could almost certainly buy two savages for about the same money. The 70 fits me right and feels natural to me and are reliable and accurate enough for anything I will ever need a rifle for. Even after I get the rifle I have to get good optics and shoot it often enough to get proficient. So I have the cost of a rifle, the cost of optics and the cost of regular shooting. Hmmmmm reloading is sounding much more attractive considering the price of quality factory loads.

[Garand]

I perfer Remington myself. When I was sentenced to 48 months in Saskatchewan I hunted with a Remington M788 fitted with a 4x Bushnell Banner scope with a BDC. I used Remington 150 grain Core Lokt and my bragging shot on a 6 pointer mulie was 450 yd 1 shot,heart shot. These days I have a Remington M700 BDL in .30-06 just in case i get the itch to hunt again. I generally only shoot competition these days.

I have a friend who loves his post 64 Winchester M70, but I'm not crazy about the quality myself. Just curious, with that amount of moving are you military? Andy aka gunkid aka erika is our resident legend in his own mind. According to him, he does have all the answers you need. He is a convict who hasn't legally touched a firearm in over 20 years. Greetings from Alberta.

[Glenn Bartley]

Well here is yet another view, one I found interesting in favor of not the suggestion I made (the .308) but in favor of the 30-06. Check it out: In one of the gun magazines, I recently read an article wherein the writer expressed an opinion that if you could only possess one rifle, it should be chambered in .30-06 Springfield, because (if you were a handloader), the .30-06 case can accommodate bullet sizes from 110gr (which would be an absolute screamer) for varmint duties, all the way up to about 220gr (for, one assumes, elephant). This came from the web site of Kim Du Toit (http://www.kimdutoit.com). It was on his page today, meaning that you will have to search his site for it tomorrow - but it will still be there with some more info. I have no idea if the .308 that I favor is this versatile or not since I do no reloading.

Kim also has lots of good info on guns on his site to help you select a rifle, and to give us ideas on what to talk about here if we ever run dry. :fullauto: ..

[Magnum88C]

The .308 can handle anything the '06 can except the 220-gr. loads. Not sure if anything is going to notice if you hit it with a 200 vs. a 220 bullet though. Generally the '06 will outrun the .308 by 75-125 fps, depending on bullet weight. At the velocity both run, I don't think the target will notice that either.

By the way, the '06 argument posted above is almost verbatim what Jeff Cooper has said for decades. He does, hoever add a caveat, which I pretty much parroted above. :D

[hipster]

No not in the military I do though have a specialized trade (about 800-1000 of in all of Canada) this is a good thing and a bad thing. Good thing is there is always work (more than most can handle) and the pay is pretty good, plus I get 5 or more job offers every year. The bad is the hours (I worked about 4000 or so last year) And the peak is usually from June to December. Hopefully this will change for next hunting season as the itch is so bad right now I might leave the industry to have more free time. I spent almost 3 years in Sask and I have to say it was the best 3 years of my life. Good people quiet living and the overall best hunting I have ever seen. If I had a chance to move back to Toon Town I would do so without hesitation, but that is the only move I would make outside of were I am currently residing.

A 450 yard shot is a bragger and is way better than I could do, it also proves that if you put the bullet were it needs to go everything else will attend to itself. Garand there is no doubt that I could not "carry your tools" where it comes to long range shooting. As I posted before 250 yds is about my max if conditions were perfect maybe 300 at the outside most, but I never would expect any more than that from myself. I lost some game in my youth because I thought I was better than I was, to this day this still bothers me to an extent. I honestly believe there are true riflemen (or women) and true hunters and a very select few that are both. If I have a chance to get close enough to touch him on the ribs with the muzzle I will take it, if not and it looks to far I will pass the shot, for me that is just the way it is.

[hipster]

Andy aka gunkid aka erika is our resident legend in his own mind. According to him, he does have all the answers you need. He is a convict who hasn't legally touched a firearm in over 20 years. Greetings from Alberta.




I figured this when I read his reply about Moose, but in being fair I read some of his other posts here on the forums. But I do have to agree with you Garand on the above quote. They say there is one like him on every forum I don't know if that is true or not, But I must say that I had some good knee slapping stomach wrenching laughter over some of his posts. I really liked the no man alive with his punch under the nose one, made me shed tears of laughter. I see that after posting a reply to his information on moose and his snotty re reply on deer and bears(Aslan pointed out I was poking fun at him) he disappeared from the thread much like bull elk do after the first opening day gunshot.

I would pose a question though why would he post under the name Erika? And now that you have posted that he is a "convict” it all kind of makes sense. Andy I feel your pain bro it must have been terrible to have to "punk" to stay alive in the pen but that is over now you can just be Andy now and forget that trying time in your incarceration.

[Magnum88C]

They say there is one like him on every forum I don't know if that is true or not, But I must say that I had some good knee slapping stomach wrenching laughter over some of his posts.

The really funny thing is, HE'S usually the one! LOL Trolling the boards is ALL he does.

[Garand]

Glenn I gather by your remarks that you aren't a reloader. The .308 diameter bullet fits in the following calibers (xref your reloading manuals first);

.300 Win mag
.30-30
.300 Savage
.308 Winchester
.30-40 Krag
.30-06
.300 H&H Magnum
.308 Norma Magnum
.300 Weatherby Magnum, etc

I counted the different bullets available in .308 diameter a few years ago and stopped at 60 plus different bullets in sizes from 110 grain to 220 grain.

Hipster, I'm retired military, like you I have a specialized trade in civilian life. I spent my time in Dundurn, 50 clicks south of Saskatoon. I hated it, except for the hunting. This is an example of my handywork.

[fffg100grns]

After thought I would say this, think of your ears and your shoulder, do you have time for ear plugs when hunting, I had a gun that kicked like hell, I sold it.

[brass hammer]

After thought I would say this, think of your ears and your shoulder, do you have time for ear plugs when hunting, I had a gun that kicked like hell, I sold it.

there is merit in your post 'powder-man'!
the last time i fired my .50 b.m.g.[i was kinda in a hurry] i forgot my EAR-MUFFS!!!,,,WOW!,,,I kinda felt "blown-up",,,****,,did that ever hurt. :dgrin:

[Flinter]

IMHO, if I'm going to hunt with it........it's going to be a Remington.

[PAPACHUCK]

These would be my choices taking into consideration gun/ammo costs, availability, and effectivness.

Ruger M77 MKII 30.06 or Savage 110/112
Mossberg 500A 28" vent-rib w/accu-choke
Marlin model 60 semi-auto .22

Save the difference in cost from other higher priced guns to buy ammo and practice, practice, practice. :)

[andy]

bs, guys take moose every year with the .44 pistol, it's that easy to do. Brad Angier's wife took one with a 250-300 Savage, ferchrisakes. Size has very little to do with it. Moose are nothing but bigger, dumber deer, and most deer are VERY dumb indeed.

[andy]

Ocnonor's wife dropped a big elephant bull with one shot from a 3006. Bell took hundreds of elephant with a 7 and 6.5 mm Mauser. Just cause you can't stalk, shoot, or hold your nerve properly doesn't mean that others can't do so. It just means that you don't amount to much, that's all.

[brass hammer]

Ocnonor's wife dropped a big elephant bull with one shot from a 3006. Bell took hundreds of elephant with a 7 and 6.5 mm Mauser. Just cause you can't stalk, shoot, or hold your nerve properly doesn't mean that others can't do so. It just means that you don't amount to much, that's all.


hey,ol'boy 'mister-160' ! jest what is the RIFLIN' TWIST on thet mauser
7x57mm.,,,,,,you "worn-out ol' rifled boar" -YOU!!!

and "BELL" knew what HE WAS ABOUT. :nyah:

[gripper]

Karamojo Bell??Yeah, he did push the envelope with the 6.5's and 7's...I always liked the 6X55 and &mm Mausers,but he was actually using the 6.5 Mannlicher-Schnouer(6.5X54)...as I recall ,he was into the solids in both calibbers ,and preferred braining them(elephants&other big dangerous animals)....damn,he had big ones!!!

[tuna]

I have no experience with the .300 - so I'd have to go with the -06. Look hard at the Savage with the accutrigger. I tried my buddy's in .308 and couldn't belive how sensitive the trigger was.

For a 12 - I'd go with the Wingmaster, though there is nothing wrong with Mossbergs, I like Remingtons better.

For the .22, I like my 10/22 for the "tweak" factor. You can tailor it to whatever you want it to do, and if you screw it up - there are plenty of parts available to fix whatever you did.