So Tard is a mod here now... [Archive]

Stillwater

10-29-2004, 04:35 PM

I'm glad. Because tard, I want you to do something. I want you to look at the IP addresses, then trace those IP addresses of every person that you consider a "detractor". Maybe then, you'll see that we all aren't JJ or whoever else you claim we all are.

Then, once you do that, I want you to come clean and apologize for the BS you've spouted about us all being one person.

Are you man enough to do that?

Mike

Rich may be into making dumb decisions, however, I don't think he would be stupid enough to do that.

Rich may be a Goodie-Two Shoes, with a Pollyana outlook, but he is a hell of a lot smarter than that.

However, I would like to see the TARD become a moderator -- two weeks tops, and this board would be as quiet as a graveyard. That would prove everybodies point. Sad, but true!

Rich Z

10-29-2004, 05:36 PM

Rich may be into making dumb decisions, however, I don't think he would be stupid enough to do that.

Rich may be a Goodie-Two Shoes, with a Pollyana outlook, but he is a hell of a lot smarter than that.

However, I would like to see the TARD become a moderator -- two weeks tops, and this board would be as quiet as a graveyard. That would prove everybodies point. Sad, but true!

You would be surprised at what I would do to get a good laugh......

But no, there are NO moderators on this site at this time.

RIKA

10-29-2004, 05:49 PM

And you would be surprised at what I would do if there are any intrusions into my privacy because of release of personal information to gunkid or anyone else.

RIKA

Rich Z

10-29-2004, 07:09 PM

And you would be surprised at what I would do if there are any intrusions into my privacy because of release of personal information to gunkid or anyone else.

RIKA

Well that was certainly worth a chuckle!

Are you speaking of the information that YOU posted willingly and freely on a public message board? What sort of personal information did YOU put there that you cannot remove yourself? Are you one of those people who believe in psychic computers? :eek:

And no, I would not be surprised at all, because your options are VERY limited in what you can do, regardless of what you may wish is the case. :)

Didn't you post a short biography of yourself in a thread here? In a PUBLIC forum? Do you mean THAT sort of information?

Why I certainly do hope that "gunkid or anyone else" can't read what you have written.....

RIKA

10-29-2004, 07:32 PM

What I have post here publicly stands as record. I am speaking of release of information regarding my name or that of the holder of this internet line as well as anything allowing harassment through its use. I believe the law allows protection from its malicious release. Release to law enforcement being excepted. This is what I am speaking of.

I'm certain that you would never do anything of a malicious nature, would you Rich. You would never consider doing anything like that to any of us, would you.

RIKA

Rich Z

10-29-2004, 08:26 PM

RIKA

10-29-2004, 08:42 PM

Nope. Not my style. But thank you for asking to make it publicly stated.

And thank you for so publicly stating it.

RIKA

DJetAce

10-30-2004, 05:22 PM

Rich,

Civil lawsuites require only a 'preponderance' of evidence to claim injury (51 %). If Erika got any kind of **** that she could trace back to gunkid (moderator) and thus you, or even 'think' she can trace it back to him, it might cost you a bundle to defend yourself. Win or lose. Good talking lawyers might want to make a name for themselves being the first internet spam killer, especially on a survival board.

FWIW.

Rich Z

10-30-2004, 07:21 PM

Sure. Go ahead and do it. But make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you do so. And don't plan on having the ready cash to buy any new guns for the next two to four years, either. You'll be buying your attorney a new yacht during that time.

Besides, any information anyone posted here was of their own free will and on a message board open to the public. I assume Erika has become a member of other message boards as well, so even coming up with a "preponderance of evidence" that the information she freely posted all over the internet came from this particular site and used to cause her any problems would be extremely difficult to even come close to proving.

But to be honest, I am really puzzled by what it is that Erika thinks that a mod can get from this site, information wise, that she would have to be concerned about. The public profile only shows this information:

Birthday:

Location:

Interests:

Occupation:

I edited out the info above that Erika has provided, of course, but it contains nothing that anyone could use against her. Even if she had posted such info, she can freely edit and remove it under her own free will.

But I will say this, that information in her profile has very little more then she has posted herself in a thread on this site in public:

Me? Self employed computer custom programmer/consultant who loves hunting, fishing, guns and the shooting sports and dogs.

RIKA
__________________
RIKA is short name for Erika

So, again, I fail to see what the heck she is even talking about.

I would especially find it humorous to see her have to call on John Davis as a witness as to where he got his information from. That WOULD be a hoot!! :roflmao1:

But you guys ARE funny! I got over being worried about lawsuits LONG ago. Most people threatening them have no clue at all what it will cost them in time, effort, expense and stress. My recommendation to anyone retaining a lawyer to file a frivolous lawsuit is to make sure that this same lawyer is well versed in bankruptcy law. There is an excellent chance they may need that expertise when the dust has settled.

DJetAce

10-30-2004, 09:53 PM

Rich, they are called sexual harrasment suits. If email comes from a harraser, or a stalker visits, and is found to have, 'by preponderance of evidence', gotten your email or address from this forum, after the owner made that person a moderator, and knowing what kind of nut that person was, oh yea it sure wouldn't be a frivolous lawsuit. And we both know what gunkid calles Erika, don't we?

You can check out Martindale Hubbell directory
http://www.lawyers.com/

or American Judicature Society http://www.ajs.org/

or FindLaw http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/

or LegalMatch http://www.legalmatch.com/ (yea sounds like a dateing service)

or Locate An Attorney http://www.locateanattorney.com/ (no explaination needed)

and http://www.legal-database.com/

and Primary Legal Assistance - http://primarylaw.com/

I have a whole directory of lawyer stuff on my 'favorites' as I keep track of this stuff and I sure want Erika to have it to.

Stillwater

10-30-2004, 11:58 PM

Sure. Go ahead and do it. But make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you do so. And don't plan on having the ready cash to buy any new guns for the next two to four years, either. You'll be buying your attorney a new yacht during that time.

Besides, any information anyone posted here was of their own free will and on a message board open to the public. I assume Erika has become a member of other message boards as well, so even coming up with a "preponderance of evidence" that the information she freely posted all over the internet came from this particular site and used to cause her any problems would be extremely difficult to even come close to proving.

But to be honest, I am really puzzled by what it is that Erika thinks that a mod can get from this site, information wise, that she would have to be concerned about. The public profile only shows this information:

I edited out the info above that Erika has provided, of course, but it contains nothing that anyone could use against her. Even if she had posted such info, she can freely edit and remove it under her own free will.

But I will say this, that information in her profile has very little more then she has posted herself in a thread on this site in public:

So, again, I fail to see what the heck she is even talking about.

I would especially find it humorous to see her have to call on John Davis as a witness as to where he got his information from. That WOULD be a hoot!! :roflmao1:

But you guys ARE funny! I got over being worried about lawsuits LONG ago. Most people threatening them have no clue at all what it will cost them in time, effort, expense and stress. My recommendation to anyone retaining a lawyer to file a frivolous lawsuit is to make sure that this same lawyer is well versed in bankruptcy law. There is an excellent chance they may need that expertise when the dust has settled.

I'm glad to see that you think you're impervious Rich ... What was it that was said; "Pride goes before a fall."

Well Richie, the whole forum knows how elitist and snobbishly sanctamonious you are, Keep it up, you're not as slick, and smart as you think you are. remember "Cronies," stick together.

Have another chuckle on everybody. But before you do, read Djetace's post above.

Rich Z

10-31-2004, 04:14 AM

Apparently you guys have never been moderators on a vBulletin based message board, eh? Moderators don't have access to that kind of information.

The only way that can happen is if Erika emails gunkid directly and thereby GIVES him her email address. Try the email feature and note this message at the bottom:

Note: By using this form, your email address will become available to the user who you are emailing.

So get real, please. Moderators on forums have VERY LIMITED abilities. On here, they were limited to soft deletes, thread moves, and edits of posts. That's it. Only Admins (me) have the access you are all talking about. And I don't give that information out to anyone.

Sexual harrassment?? Again, get real. You guys don't have a clue about what you are talking about:
Legal Definitions of Sexual Harassment

Sexual harassment is a legal term, created for the purpose of ending harassment and discrimination against women in the workplace. The term is constantly being redefined and extended in legislation and court decisions. However, not all sexual behavior in the workplace is harassment, and the laws against sexual harassment do not extend to situations outside the workplace or school.

Man, my even mentioning the possibility of putting andy as a moderator sure twisted your panties REAL TIGHT didn't it? LOL!! Why do you all fear that so much? You certainly don't give a damn one way or another about this forum, so what is your concern all about?

I'm glad to see that you think you're impervious Rich ... What was it that was said; "Pride goes before a fall."

Well Richie, the whole forum knows how elitist and snobbishly sanctamonious you are, Keep it up, you're not as slick, and smart as you think you are. remember "Cronies," stick together.

Have another chuckle on everybody. But before you do, read Djetace's post above.

Oh I am still chuckling, Bill. I do know the laws concerning the activities I am involved in. I also have the ability to successfully fight any lawsuit. All it takes is money. Especially one where you would have absolutely no grounds whatsoever. YOU all are coming here, remember? Not the other way around. So everything you read or write here is by your own choice and free will.

Nothing at all "snobbishly sanctimonious" (glad you spelled it right this time) about being right.

And I have my own folder of legal links as well. So what? While you are browsing through those sites, be sure to look up the phrase "malicious abuse of process". This is very commonly used in a countersuit for frivolous lawsuits. You may want to become VERY familiar with it.

BTW, Bill, you never answered my question: What made you decide to break your self imposed exile and come back here?

So again ....... :laugh01: :laugh01: :laugh01:

KJUN

10-31-2004, 07:36 AM

Let's see: They fussed when you didn't moderate, they complained when you did, they piss and moan now that you don't again, talk about you in another forum where they accuse you of strange connecions and prejudicely insult all snake owners (as a stereotypic group), come here and threaten you, and spend more time spewing non-arms related info than true arms related info.

OK, I'm having a REAL hard time seeing how the rest of the andy-followers (sorry, but I've started thinking of that group the same way, too) are worse than andy himself. Some of them have tapped each other on the back for so long that they seem to have started believing the net is the real world.

BTW, when I have to hire a lawyer, I don't consider bookmarks to be a qualification of hisexpertise.

I hate to say it, but I wouldn't blame Rich for closing the board down. Instead of being a good thing, it has become a group of whining, self-imposed, exilers that don't leave! The sad part is that I bet many of y'all would LIKE to see the board closed down soley for the reason that andy would no longer be able to post here, either.
KJ

andy

10-31-2004, 11:11 AM

If I was a mod here, about 15 NAMES (about 4-5 actual people) wouldn't be posting here, at ALL, and the non gun posting would come to a screeching halt.

Rich Z

10-31-2004, 12:05 PM

Andy, the simplest way I can think of for you to make THEM look foolish is by your not posting derogatory posts. Let the rest of the world see them as the antagonists. They are doing this simply to get a rise out of you and then point to YOU as being the cause of the problem. Simply turn the tables on them. If and when I decide to go back to a moderated site, it will be real easy to see who has to be shoved out the door.

And first and foremost, don't take these guys seriously. They apparently have nothing better to do with their time then to go trolling gun related boards trying to stir up trouble.

Lawsuits, pfft! They have NO idea what they would be setting themselves up for.

DJetAce

10-31-2004, 05:02 PM

Look Rich, it's your ass Cochise.

If that screwball somehow finds Erika's email, you would be the first one (and only one to even entertain making gunkid a moderator) any lawyer would look at. I would not care if a moderator has access to the Pentagon or just the outhouse, you having made him one would put you on more of a 'buddy buddy' thing. Lawyers don't have to prove much, just make a good talk in a civil court.

DJetAce

10-31-2004, 05:04 PM

Oh and one more thing. Sexual harrasment is real big now days. Many a idiot who just said a thoughtless remark has had his life destroyed. And while gunkid has little thought of relavance, his remarks are not thoughless.

polesmoker

10-31-2004, 06:24 PM

If I was a mod here, about 15 NAMES (about 4-5 actual people) wouldn't be posting here, at ALL, and the non gun posting would come to a screeching halt.

Prove that 4-5 people are responsible for 15 posting names, without including yourself in that list.

Your rants about everybody being JJ are weak and tired.

Aslan

11-01-2004, 01:58 PM

Ok, I admit it.

I, personally, am every single person posting on this site. All of them, without exception.

satisfied?

:devil:

Aslan

11-01-2004, 01:59 PM

But, I already knew that - right?

:devil:

Hard Rock

11-01-2004, 04:28 PM

Rich Z

11-01-2004, 06:09 PM

Actually, Rich, I'm a moderator on about a dozen forums on the internet that are public. I'm able to get quite a bit of information from vbulletin board. Just ask anyone on assaultweb.net who remembers the stalking fiasco from two years ago.

The key is, knowing the system, and knowing how to use what information is there. It also helps to be employed by the right company too.

Mike

OK, I am willing to accept that possibility. Let me know what vbulletin version 3.0.3 site you are a moderator on, and I will register there with a fake email account and you can prove to me it is possible to do. Of course, it will have to be one you can't get that info from the Admin, however. You willing to do this fairly and truthfully?

If that doesn't work for you I can make you a temporary, one forum mod HERE and I will create a member with a made up email address and you can show me you can do it. Actually, I think this would be the best way to do it, since I have no idea about who you might be buds with that is an admin. Not that I think you would cheat, but perhaps doing BOTH of them might not be a bad idea, considering.

Sound fair enough?

I don't mind being proven wrong when that is the case. I will have learned something from it.

Hard Rock

11-04-2004, 11:08 AM

KJUN

11-04-2004, 03:00 PM

I'm a moderator on assaultweb.net, subguns.com, full-auto.com, trackpads.net, and a few others... take your pick.

As for modding here, no thanks. No offense but you wouldn't like how I mod here temporary or not.

Mike

Mike,

It didn't sound to me that he was offering to make you a moderator. It sopunded to me like he was calling your bluff, itf it was in factg a bluff and not the complete truth. I was really surious to see if you'd prove Rich wrong in this case, too.

KJ

Rich Z

11-04-2004, 03:25 PM

I'm a moderator on assaultweb.net, subguns.com, full-auto.com, trackpads.net, and a few others... take your pick.

As for modding here, no thanks. No offense but you wouldn't like how I mod here temporary or not.

Mike

Mike,

I would set you up as a temporary mod that ONLY had rights to a single forum. A forum that I would set up myself and post one message in from a fake ID I would create myself to see if you could divine the email address from it. There is nothing else you could do in any other section of this entire site. So no, I am not at all worried about how you would act as a moderator at all.

41mag

11-04-2004, 03:28 PM

Hard Rock---BOTD---:)

Rich Z

11-04-2004, 03:40 PM

Well I just tried to register with trackpads but got this as a result:

There seems to have been a slight problem with the Trackpads Community database.
Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.

An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persists.

We apologise for any inconvenience.

Oopsie!

andy

11-04-2004, 03:49 PM

Rich Z

11-04-2004, 04:29 PM

Trust has nothing at all to do with this. If someone can scrape emails out of the user database here, then I want to know about it.

I have created a fake ID (Test User 999) and posted a message in the Profanity Testing forum in the Testing Area: http://www.armslocker.com/forums/showthread.php?p=102922#post102922

I have made Hard Rock a moderator to that forum ONLY.

OK Hard Rock, show me your stuff. Tell me the email address I registered Test User 999 with. If you can really do this I want to know about it.

Thanks.

Aslan

11-04-2004, 06:35 PM

He's a PROVEN liar, Rich. He lied about my sending him "threatening" emails, he lied about siccing the cops on me, he lied about being "wraith", super sniper for the feds, he lied about his split times with pistols, he's lied about his 308 ammo speeds, he's lied about being able to get 10 rds across my skyscreens at 1200 yds, he's just plain NOT to be trusted in ANY shape or form, Rich. Dont say I didn't warn you. He's a scumbag, just like aslan and the rest.

I feel honored to get a mention. But still, no Christmas card from me this year either.

I guess when I mathematically shot down his bob and weave theory, I became high on the hatred list. The fact that he cannot debate or have an adult disagreement is too bad.

I'd love to see him actually debate things factually, without all the vitriol.

:devil:

Rich Z

11-04-2004, 06:51 PM

Yeah, I suppose there are some drawbacks to the IGNORE feature here. Kind of makes discussions into monologues if EVERYONE else is on IGNORE.

RIKA

11-04-2004, 07:08 PM

He's a PROVEN liar. Dont say I didn't warn you. He's a scumbag, just like aslan and the rest.

Funny how everybody who disagrees with andy is a "PROVEN liar" or a "scumbag" or a "****". Kinda tells you about the person doing the name calling, huh.

RIKA :duck:

Aslan

11-04-2004, 07:26 PM

I know I have hammered him big time, but not with hatred - at least that was never my intent.

When I see a post that states what amounts to " .308 forces you to stand in the open and to shoot at every noise you hear at night", I will point out just how silly such a supposition it is...

And you cannot argue that it isn't silly. (Stronger words do apply.)

If I were to post that using a .223 required you to stand on one foot and yodel in order to use it, why would that be any less factual than what he posted about the .308? I'd fully expect to have my head handed to me over something like that.

But, anything, anything at all, that contradicts his posts and you get the stupe, pos, scumbag, etc. stuff.

:devil:

DJetAce

11-04-2004, 07:34 PM

Rich Z

11-04-2004, 08:25 PM

Rich, you still don't get it. Let's say there is no way a mod can get an email unless they have the help of a 'hacker'. That's the same 'hacker' gunkid as told people he was going to get info on them and track them down on (he said such on other sites). Ok, let's say he can't do that... then any such email harrasment or phone harrassment or physical harrasment will be laid right at your feet, cause you made him moderator and thus just about the only friend gunkid has in this electronic world (or any world.)

Just FWIW.

If there is ANY logic at all in that above statement, would someone kindly point it out to me.....

Let's see if Gunkid were made a moderator here, and even with the help of a hacker friend COULD NOT get someone's email address from this site, "then any such email harrasment or phone harrassment or physical harrasment will be laid right at your feet, cause you made him moderator and thus just about the only friend gunkid has in this electronic world (or any world.)"
:crazy1: :crazy1: :crazy1:

FYI, except for a VERY limited few, I am not friends with anyone on this site that I have not met face to face. ALL of the rest of you are just names posting messages here. Some I have known from other message boards I run, but still, they are only acquaintances.

Nope, I guess I still don't get it. But something tells me neither do you, based on what I can see of your technical grasp of what we are talking about here. :)

My server is very secure and I make sure all the latest security patches are in place. Maybe a hacker could get that information, but I'd have to see it done to believe it. There is a reason that vBulletin costs money to buy a license and is not like all those other freebie message board systems out there. You are paying for quality.

You know what, now you have me curious. I'm going to contact JelSoft and ask them directly about this possibility. I'll let you know what they say.

Rich Z

11-04-2004, 09:48 PM

OK, here is the response from the vBulletin support people:

A moderator can view a person's profile details through the moderator control panel if they are setup to view a profile in detail (mod permissions). This will include their email address (not the password).

You can make a test user and set this user up as moderator and try it out yourself what happens if you apply different moderator permissions to that specific moderator.

Please let me know if you require any further assistance.

All the best,
Floris Fiedeldij Dop
Support Team, vBulletin

So from what I gather from this, and I have seen that option when I have set up GLOBAL moderators, is that the admin (me) can either enable this option or not, for any moderators on a site.

Since Hard Rock did NOT have this option enabled for his moderation powers on that one forum, the challenge still stands to see if he can divine the email address from that test user I set up.

Hard Rock

11-05-2004, 09:08 AM

So start posting posts... I need a few to start with.

Mike

Hard Rock

11-05-2004, 09:12 AM

You know Rich, it would help if I could see the freaking IP addy.

Mike

Rich Z

11-05-2004, 11:48 AM

You know Rich, it would help if I could see the freaking IP addy.

Mike

Who said I wanted to HELP you? I set you up just as I would any moderator for this site. This whole situation came about by people getting their panties in a wad when I said I was contemplating making Andy a mod here. So you got set up exactly how I would set him up as a moderator.

Have fun!

Hard Rock

11-05-2004, 12:39 PM

Whatever... play your games... I'm not interested.

Rich Z

11-05-2004, 03:46 PM

I'm not playing games. You stated you could do something and I challenged you to prove if you could do so.

Sounded pretty simple to me. You claimed that a moderator could pull out the email address of other members from this site. I set you up as a moderator to a single forum, created a fake member with a unique email address, placed a message in that forum, and challenged you to tell me what that email address is for that member. It don't get more black and white then that, does it?

Either you can do it, or you can't. Black or white.

Looks like you can't. :-poke:

Hard Rock

11-08-2004, 09:31 AM

Ok... First of all, your "moderation" is a ****ing joke. If what you "gave" me is what you consider what is needed for moderation, you are wrong. You want me to play with posts without being able to see if there is a larger problem, anyone can do that, if you want real moderation, you need to let your people see important information like IP addresses so that problems like banned people coming back under different names or if someone is causing flame wars under another name.

No, you want to play bull**** games. If you don't understand what being a moderator is, that is one thing... I can open your eyes if you want. If you just want to be a dick and act like a whiny child, leave me out of it.

I really don't have the inclination to show you or help you out at all with the way you've been acting and treating the members here. But, I'll give you a freebie. By accessing the IP address, and using a program called Internet Globalbrain, I can see what email addresses use that IP addy. I can also do a few other things with it.

So, play your games. Think that no one can find out who you are and all that crap... prepared to be disappointed and surprised.

Mike

Rich Z

11-08-2004, 11:51 AM

LOL!!

Yeah, I have been running message boards on the internet since around 1996. Nope, I don't have a clue about moderation, do I?

I set up new moderators so they can do as minimal damage as possible if they prove to be not what they appear on the surface. ONLY after they have proven to be stable and extremely trustworthy, so I give them more extensive powers. Providing IP addresses to anyone who asks for them is NOT a cool thing for a site admin to do. But you know that already, right?

YOU said andy could determine the email address of a user if I set him up as a moderator of this site. I asked you to prove that by setting YOU up just as I would have done with andy as a moderator here, if I had been so inclined. So now you are getting all pissy with me because you could not do as you claimed? That is MY fault?

So, let's just admit that you are wrong and move on, please....

Aslan

11-08-2004, 12:30 PM

From my perspective, you were both wrong, and both right.

WTF? you say...

Well, it is clear that you both had different ideas on what it meant to be a moderator. The conditions were never spelled out.

So, Rich is correct within his understanding of what a moderator can and cannot do.

Mike is also correct within his understanding of the same.

The problem, is that you both have different ideas of what it means to be a moderator.

What should have happend first, is a discussion on what capabilities Rich gives to Moderators, and what capabilities Mike would need to accomplish what he needed.

I think you both kinda blew this one...not trying to be a jerk, just calling it as I see it. (it's not like there's a shortage of Alpha personalities here lol)

:devil:

Rich Z

11-08-2004, 02:14 PM

Actually the whole argument was superfluous. Sexual harrassment via email? Hell, all the person would have to do is to NOT read the emails! Or block them via filters in the mail reader.

It's not like anyone really has to read any email they don't want to.

Granting a moderator the ability to read IP addresses is an option, not a requirement, that any admin can choose. vBulletin also allows you to have global moderators and specific forum based moderators as well. Each with their own set of capabilities. The latest version even allows the admin to set a moderator to only be able to do "soft" deletes, which the admin can review and override if necessary.

The claim was made that my making andy a moderator here would have given him the capability to be able to harass Raider via email. My claim was that this was not true. And therefore I asked Mike to prove his claim.

The environment is MY site with MY rules. Nothing else really mattered for the test.

Aslan

11-08-2004, 03:11 PM

Right, but it was never discussed, to my knowledge, what the environment for your site was in any detail.

So, if you had given the ability to read IP addresses, then it would probably be possible for Mike to do what he claimed.

But, since you don't give that ability (which is at your descretion,a nd you could change that policy any time you want), then it is not possible for Mike to do what he claimed.

I still don't recall you saying you did not give out the ability to view IP addresses. I also don't recall you claiming that you would never do so.

Mike mistakenly assumed that you gave that ability.

Like you said, your site, your rules. What are those rules? (That's the gotcha. And can you change your mind on the rules anytime you feel like it? - sure you can.)

Nothing else matter for the test. True, but the rules were not made public for the test.

(I think I know the answers to this next part but am stating it for arguments sake.)

Because the rules were never spelled out up front, we don't know that you wouldn't have given Andy the ability to see IP addresses.

Just like we don't know that you simply decided no to give the ability to Mike because you knew it would make him fail in his task.

(I know, because I was a moderator for a short while, that you did not give me the ability to see IP addresses and I only assume that Andy would have the same limited capabilities as I had. But I don't know for sure.)

:devil:

Rich Z

11-08-2004, 04:47 PM

Even with the ability to view IP addresses, that information is not always useful. AOL accounts are notorious for using proxy IPs, which would make tracking email addresses through them pretty fruitless. Plus there are a whole slew of anonymizer programs and websites out there that spoof the connecting IP addresses. On top of that, many ISPs will use shared IP addresses so that ALL connections through them will show the same IP, no matter how many people dial up through them.

So for someone to make such a blanket claim as Mike did is rather being overly optimistic of their abilities and the information that can be gleaned from this site, even with full access rights. Heck, I can look at some IPs of posters here and they appear to use a different IP address every time they post a message.

As I mentioned before, several people got up in arms and stated absolutely that a moderator here could get private information about the other posts on this site. My claim then, and now, is that this is not necessarily so. That sort of capability is limited, at best, based on information that can be gleaned from an IP address, and secondarily by the options that an admin opens up for the moderators of a site. If I wanted to, I could make any other member of this site an admin as well. Just because I can, doesn't mean that I will.

And I do believe I proved my point, didn't I? Mike did NOT say he could could the information from an IP address, he said he could get quite a bit of information from vBulletin by being a moderator. Here's the exact quote:

Actually, Rich, I'm a moderator on about a dozen forums on the internet that are public. I'm able to get quite a bit of information from vbulletin board. Just ask anyone on assaultweb.net who remembers the stalking fiasco from two years ago.

The key is, knowing the system, and knowing how to use what information is there. It also helps to be employed by the right company too.

Mike

So I made him a moderator on THIS vBulletin system and let him take a stab at it. The rules were (1) a vBulletin system, and (2) he would be a moderator.

And that is what he got.

Pass or fail.

So OK, I just enabled Hard Rock to be able to look at IP addresses in that one forum. I also posted another test message using an anonymizer program under my test logon.

I imagine he might be able to get my email addresses from the first one, since that is a static Comcast IP address, but I'm curious to see what he can come up with in the second example. If I had time, I would log in under AOL as well and post another message, but that will have to wait for another time.

Ball is in your court, Mike.

Aslan

11-08-2004, 05:00 PM

True, but with an IP address, and a packet sniffer (and there's plenty of software out there to turn your PC into a packet sniffer) you can get the routing information and even with anonymizers and shared addresses, there is enough info for the data to get to the right computer, which means you can do the same.

The data moves through the internet according to a well defined set of protocols. The fact that the data can get from your computer to a web site and pack means that the info can be tracked.

It is a matter of time and resources.

Personally, I don't think Andy could do it, even with full access to the IP information and not using anything to cover your tracks.

He doesn't understand enough about how the internet works, IMHO.

All in all, a tempest in a teacup.

There are, however, things that could bring grief to this site, but they'd be pretty far fetched, even for Andy...

To be fair, I (just me personally) doubt you can do it form a single message. But, using a packet sniffer and activity, I'm willing to bet I could locate the servers your ISP was hosting your account on and then possibly watch them for packets I could track back to you. Once I got an IP to MAC address mapping, you could change your IP all you wanted, your mac would remain the same.

Btw, I meant figuratively willing to bet, not literally. I have neither the time nor the inclination to chase this down.

fun stuff, interesting to see how this all falls out.

:devil:

Wylycoyte

11-08-2004, 05:06 PM

Btw, I meant figuratively willing to bet, not literally. I have neither the time nor the inclination to chase this down.

:devil:

WHAT?!!! You're not willig to go through 2 sleepless nights, 7 bottles of Jolt cola loaded with coffee grounds, 2.35 pieces of stale, leftover pizza, a box of twinkies and a bag of chili cheese Doritos just to chase this down? What kinda h4x0r r u, n E way?

KJUN

11-08-2004, 05:24 PM

Right, but it was never discussed, to my knowledge, what the environment for your site was in any detail.
:devil:

Then it sounds like Mike was the one wrong here. He said that andy could get the email address if he was a moderator. I guess he just assumed Rich was stupid enough to allow andy to get that information. Rich called his bluff - end of story. Rich just said he didn't believe andy could do it if Rich made him a moderator. Mike said Rich was wrong. Sounds like Mike is accusing Rich of being a butthole instead of admitting he was wrong.

Sure, I bet he could have done it with information that wouldn't have been made available to andy, but that wasn't what he said. Before trying to blow smoke up people's butt about his abilities, maybe he should have asked exactly what and would have gotten access to before screaming what he could do (without knowing what he would have acces to).

KJ

Rich Z

11-08-2004, 06:24 PM

KJ, it's just smoke and mirrors stuff. Even if Andy had Erika's email address, so what? Do you read all of the spam mail you get? Do you HAVE to read any email that you don't want to? Of course not.

Sexual harrassment via email???? Give me a break.......

I can block emails any number of ways I want to, and I am sure Erika (and anyone else) can do so as well. To say that a moderator of this site would get someone's email address through any complicated IP analytical measures that Mike is talking about is completely ridiculous. Anyone with at least a half dozen brain cells could get an email address much easier and quicker any number of ways then trying to hack an IP address on a message board.

Sheesh......

Aslan

11-08-2004, 06:24 PM

WHAT?!!! You're not willig to go through 2 sleepless nights, 7 bottles of Jolt cola loaded with coffee grounds, 2.35 pieces of stale, leftover pizza, a box of twinkies and a bag of chili cheese Doritos just to chase this down? What kinda h4x0r r u, n E way?

It's jolt, twinkies, and thai food...

I've been very busy lately, and only able to really hit the board between builds. (I'm trying to roll out a fairly large intranet application at work. One of those learn as you go projects...)

Which is why there's probably clusters of times when my posts have hit this board...

As far as the rest goes. It is entertaining here, if nothing else. (And before someone jumps on me - I'm as big a source of amusment as the next guy...)

Oh yeah, it is INTRANET, not INTERNET in this case...

:devil:

Rich Z

11-08-2004, 09:16 PM

I hear you, Aslan. Moderation is a pain in the butt if you are the one having to play babysitter all day long. I'm enjoying myself a lot more here since I don't have to do any work while I am here.

Hard Rock

11-12-2004, 09:15 AM

No, Kjun, I expected a certain level of knowledge about moderatorship from Rich that isn't there. My mistake. I can dance around nuking posts all day but that is only a tiny part of being a moderator.

This is how I can get an email addy. Using a program called Globalbrain, I can Identify any traffic sent by email or various other means from an IP address for certain time periods. This allows me to get an identity on the email address itself.

It's just one of many tools I have access to at work that I have used in the past to locate trouble makers and stalkers on the internet.

Mike