Tig weld 2 ozs onto M21 Slide, gets rid of

[andy]

the "extra" ejection port pop noticed with this little gun, as vs what is noticable with other .22 autos. M21's slide weighs about half what many other 22 autopistol slides weigh, and the recoil springs aint that tough. So the M21's slide blows open a bit sooner than does that of other .22 autos, so there's a bit more ejection port noise.

[Hard Rock]

Right... sure, and just what do you know about TIG welding?

Mike

[AZ COLLECTOR]

if you overweight slide....on a beretta m21
how the heck are you supposed to extract?
please show me a pic of you m21 extractor and i will be a believer.
bet you can't
sean

[brass hammer]

the "extra" ejection port pop noticed with this little gun, as vs what is noticable with other .22 autos. M21's slide weighs about half what many other 22 autopistol slides weigh, and the recoil springs aint that tough. So the M21's slide blows open a bit sooner than does that of other .22 autos, so there's a bit more ejection port noise.


WHAT THE ****? ol'boy[mister160]....???? i think an ounce and a half

would suffice!... but then again you do have the 'flair' for drama!!!



:roflmao1: :roflmao1: :roflmao1: :roflmao1: :roflmao1:


:wavey:

[Hard Rock]

I still want to hear what he knows about TIG. Like, how do you prep the metal? What kind of bead are you going to run? What voltage? what kind of gas are you going to use? What kind of stick are you using in the torch?

Not to mention, how are you going to keep the slide from warping from the weld job?

Mike

[Hasher]

What a complete tard. Outed by the experts yet again.

[Stillwater]

I still want to hear what he knows about TIG. Like, how do you prep the metal? What kind of bead are you going to run? What voltage? what kind of gas are you going to use? What kind of stick are you using in the torch?

Not to mention, how are you going to keep the slide from warping from the weld job?

Mike

I would make a bet that NUTTY JOHN doesn't know what the acronym TIG means. And he probably doesn't know what ARGON is either.

[AZ COLLECTOR]

but seriously how the heck would it extract the round...??? :laugh01:
the beretta 21 uses leftover gas pressure in the barrel to blow the spent case back out of the chamber where it hits the ejector and flips out of the fire arm.

if you weighted the slide more the gas pressure would not be high enough to accomplish this task. the popping you hear when the slide comes back is actually gasses escaping after blowing the spent casing out. the only way to use a heavier slide would be to lengthen the barrel. and that would defeat the entire purpose of the 21 in the 1st place.

not only would welding on the slide with tugsten inert gas :) or anyother method most likely warp the slide or at the least cause some stresses possibly enough for a failure. but it would also require retempering i would think.

maybe it would be best if you left it alone.

sean

[Stillwater]

I probably shouldn't say this, because it will give NUTTY JOHN a hint. But, there is a temperature the slide SHOULD be heated to, before welding, that would stop any warping movement of the casting. All firearm slides are heat treated after manufacture, to relieve stress and to strengthen the slide.

However, I won't say what PROCESS, should used to HEAT, and COOL, the slide, or to what temperature, just so that NUTTY JOHN may blow up his gun and take himself out.

[Stillwater]

I probably shouldn't say this, because it will give NUTTY JOHN a hint. But, there is a temperature the slide SHOULD be heated to, before welding, that would stop any warping movement of the casting. All firearm slides are heat treated after manufacture, to relieve stress and to strengthen the slide.

However, I won't say what PROCESS, should used to HEAT, and COOL, the slide, or to what temperature, just so that NUTTY JOHN may blow up his gun and take himself out.

[Stillwater]

What is the slide on the famous Bereeteta M21 made out of? Anyone know?

Job knowledge for welders 6: Tungsten inert gas (TIG or GTA) ... - TIG Welding. Tungsten inert gas (TIG) welding became an overnight success in the 1940s for joining magnesium and aluminium. Using ...

http://www.twi.co.uk/j32k/getfile/jk6.html

[Stillwater]

Does anyone know what MIG welding is?

What three gases are used, in MIG welding?

[AZ COLLECTOR]

carbon steel.....
or stainless if the inox version

3 gasses co2 argon helium.......oh dont forget the tri mix and co2 argon mix

perhaps we should be asking which gasses to which metals

and what martinite and austinite are? and thier effects on steel.

this could go on forever.

but i still don't believe the pistol will cycle properly or eject properly with that added weight.

sean

[Stillwater]

carbon steel.....
or stainless if the inox version

3 gasses co2 argon helium.......oh dont forget the tri mix and co2 argon mix

perhaps we should be asking which gasses to which metals

and what martinite and austinite are? and thier effects on steel.

this could go on forever.

It is quiet obvious to me that you know what you are talking about.


but i still don't believe the pistol will cycle properly or eject properly with that added weight.

sean

Again, you are right in your analysis. But, we shouldn't tell NUTTY JOHN, let him find out the hard way.

[krept]

well, i don't know dick about welding but I do about steel from remedial knifemaking. even with "carbon steel" you can get into the 10xx, 4xxx and 5xxx ranges, have to know the different A1,2 and 3 temps, what the quenchent is, how long to temper for (considering the voids make it less dense than a smiliar size of barstock) and at what temp. Heck, how long do you want it to soak for at critical for the intended application. It's a real PITA with even a known carbon steel if you don't have a good electronic furnace... if it's stainless, I'd send it out to be professionally done for sure because it's so @#%$@ complicated.

That said, I'm pretty damn sure GK knows about TIG welding considering some advice he's given me about different setups. Just because I've blurted all that garbage out doesn't mean I can grind a blade.

cheers

[AZ COLLECTOR]

:headbang:
sorry i never did get the hang of not sharing info and or my limited knowledge.
well i need a nap had a 16hr day fighting with flow control valves. hopefully will enjoy some nice sunny days 65-70* F here in AZ :cool:

sean

[andy]

u don't think so because you are too stupid and lazy to go WEIGH some .22 slides. I just use argon for both aluminum and steel. I wouldn't bother with stainless. It aint as lw as alumium, and if it's as durable as carbon steel, it's a mf to machine, and there's no need for it.

[AZ COLLECTOR]

ok now i understand :rolleyes:

i'm thinking you are a younge kid with out a clue ...... or totally ignorant.

this is after reviewing all the posts of yours on this site.

COME TO AZ PROVE IT SHOW ME
I WILL COVER THE ROOM AND BOARD AT A HOTEL (yes hotel not motel)
if you prove me and what seems like every one wrong i will publically admit it and i think most will no longer doubt you so much.

one stipulation....nothing illegal to be demonstrated or attempted.

sean

[krept]

Man you sure can't beat the weather out here this time of year... I think it's the third time in almost nine months I wore a long sleeve shirt. :D

cheers

[AZ COLLECTOR]

phoenix must be warmer than yuma.
when starting work at 430am it has been friggen cold.
but warms nicely through the day.
if i remember right much better then those up north dealing with that white fluffy litter from the clouds been so lond i think it was called.....SNOW. :)
sean
krept if you wind up in the yuma area give me a call perhaps we can go shooting or fishing. ncojkoj@adelphia.net

[andy]

all you have to DO, dumbass, is weigh a Ciener .22 unit slide, for the 1911, or some equally heavy, yet functional .22 pistol slide, and weigh the M21 slide. YOu can come to ME, and BET big bucks, and lose it, or get your ass stomped, whichever you'd like.

[Stillwater]

all you have to DO, dumbass, is weigh a Ciener .22 unit slide, for the 1911, or some equally heavy, yet functional .22 pistol slide, and weigh the M21 slide. YOu can come to ME, and BET big bucks, and lose it, or get your ass stomped, whichever you'd like.

Another version of the FRUITY TOUGH CON ACT. Your not a 'little light on your feet, are you?"

[RIKA]

YOu can come to ME, and BET big bucks, and lose it, or get your ass stomped, whichever you'd like.

I'm not worried about getting stomped, I'm worried about being set on. Andy (mr. light-on-his-feet) would squash me flat. :D

RIKA

[Sundancekid]

There aren't many metals, either ferrous or non-ferrous that cannot be welded with the TIG- Tungsten Inert Gas, An inert gas is non-flammable, Argon and Helium- an non-inert, such as Hydrogen (read Hindenberg 1937 Big Bang theory here) is flammable. The inert gas shields the welding arc from oxygen, in both TIG and MIG (Metallic Inert Gas) welding processes, much as the gas produced from the arc shield from the flux that is burned and consumed in the "stick" welding process. I'll pass on welding aluminum (100% pure Tungsten electrode, end "balled" and on AC high freq- and stick with ferrous, such as hardened steels used in mfg. firearms. Pre-heat and inter pass temps. are critical, as post heat and wrap, annealing the area prior to the welding process is critical on Air, Water and Oil hardened alloy steels- DC straight polarity (80% of the amperage (heat) is in the parent metal in this polarity setting, 1 or 2 % thoria tungsten (thorium prevents the electrode, which is NOT consumed in the TIG process from breaking down, ground to a flat tip- amperage, open circuit voltage, size of cup, torch, tungsten and flow of shielding gas all basically depend on ther thickness and mass of the piece(s) to be welded. Most, but not all TIG welding is done on a bench in the downhand position- wind must be contained in TIG and MIG, to prevent a breeze from blowing the shielding gas away from the welding zone and the resulting HAZ- Heat Affected Zone. Hope I got it right- TIG welding is like brain surgery- not a real "do it your-self-er" in my book.

[Sundancekid]

MIg means Metallic Inert Gas- the consumable electrode is a spool fed alloyed wire, shielded by the inert gas- amperage, open circuit voltage, travel speed, joint and metal prep are all important, just as in SMAW (stick electrode) welding, the wire is by dia. and also AWS code, just as in stick welding- .025" wire for body shop (thin metals) .045-.060 wire for metal fabrication shop work- an Lincoln .050 70-S-3 wire (70,000 psi. min. tensile as stress relieved, S-3 75% Argon 25% Co2 gas- Austinite is a non-magnetic compound produced in ferrous metal are it is heated, quenched and worked- Martinsite is a similar compound but it develops without work hardening- both serve to bond the molecules of the metal into a homogenous mass-an example of the opposite might be the older Damascus shotgun barrels, steel and iron were heated, twisted on a mandrel, and then hammer welded together. An earlier thread mentioned TIG as during WW11 for welding aluminum and magnesium- known then as Heli-Arc as Helium was the main shielding gas used- Linde first developed this for Aircraft and Glider frame welding. Magnesium was later used for small lawnmower decks- it has the basic strength (tensile) as a comparable grade of Aluminum, but it is highly flammable in powder form, and the only sure way to extinguish a Magnesium fire is to smother it in sand. You can spark test most ferrous metals, but there is a "quick and dirty" test to determine if you have aluminum or magnesium- take a new Mill Bastard file-file shavings from one piece with one clean side of the file, use the other clean side on the other-save the shavings on clean paper, light them- the aluminum shavings won't burn, but the magnesium ones will- this won't tell you which grade of aluminum you have however.