Knew 2 black guys shot with 12 ga, point blank

[andy]

both had been hit in the collarbone area. Small birdshot, had big "divots "gone out of their anatomies. Both had driven themselves to get into fantastic physical shape, in prison. Both still had full use of both arms.

[Wylycoyte]

Some people do recommend birdshot for defensive use. They're too worried about not shooting the neighbors and not worried enough about shooting the bad guys, IMO. Speaking of lack of penetration, isn't that why most people don't like those light weight, frangible bullets you're always pushing? Aren't you the one bitching about how most rounds penetrate excessively? Well, those 2 guys are why people want their rounds to penetrate.

Secondly, I know a guy a guy from my old gym who'd taken a hit in the belly from a 40mm grenade in Vietnam. The grenade didnt go off, but it still took a bunch of surgeries to make him close to right again. Didn't stop him from working out several times a week and being a pretty strong dude. If you last long enough to get to a trauma unit, most gunshot wounds are eminently survivable.

[andy]

My prefag is moving at 2200+ fps, and its rear fragment has never failed to penetrate 12" in game. The front 2 pcs penetrate 6-8", too. See, dummy, my prefrag is made out of pure tin, a HARD bullet, and its rear segment is a full wadcutter, very nose heavy because it's hollowbased. It plows right on thru, on the line it started on. The front two segments break off of the hp at the grease groove, cause the nose is slit by an .008" thick slitting saw, in a horizontal milling machine. What my buddy did is experiment with how deep he slit them, until they came apart in the air, then he backed off .010", and they break up just fine in flesh, at speeds over 2000 fps. Aint it a shame that I'm SO far out ahead of you twits? :-) I lost 20 years to the Feds, and I'm STILL 20 YEARS ahead of you.

[Wylycoyte]

So stick some pictures of wound channels up on a website as proof; it ain't that hard. Some independent testing by disinterested 3rd parties would ensure your victory.

[Magnum88C]

Yep, superlight bullets slow down VERY fast. Little penetration. And no, they aren't armor piercing.

[Coyote]

both had been hit in the collarbone area. Small birdshot, had big "divots "gone out of their anatomies. Both had driven themselves to get into fantastic physical shape, in prison. Both still had full use of both arms.

I doubt this very much.

Birdshot doesnt have much penetration but I'm sure it would go deep enough from close contact range to screw over some nerves, arteries, and what the sane world refers to as the windpipe. Ya learn things every day Melvin.

Granted such a wound would be quite survivable, but I would think that they would suffer some mobility loss in the pectoral region, at the very least.

[emmanuel]

personaly i test prevot "s" 12ga stainless bulett it s stop and stay in a 15mm fer for building standard can t remove it as wood for lead

[fedupdon]

knew a kid killed with a 410 a number 6 shot 3 inch shell one shot to th lower chest died in 4 hrs .the human is not a tuff animal to kill .
i find this web site funny in a lot of ways to hear some talk if you are not shooting a ar15 or ak you just cant kill any one .and when can a convicted felon own a gun in the united states,id be afaid some one may use the info
here in a law suite the anti gun nuts do not need any help taking my guns away so why give them ammo to do it with. i thought id had found a site that
was a useful site for gun surevial info .hell maybe i should get a sence of humor.

[RIKA]

You sound familiar Don, like somebody I have met before. Maybe you are reading the wrong posts and not the hundreds that offer good advice on shooting and survival. And I agree with you, maybe you should develop a sense of humor.

RIKA

[KJUN]

i find this web site funny in a lot of ways to hear some talk if you are not shooting a ar15 or ak you just cant kill any one .

As RIKA implies, please don't judge the entire website by the actions of one (or a couple) individuals or even the actions of some individuals sometimes. Judge it as a whole and not "by the cover."

KJ

[Wylycoyte]

edit: Never mind.

[cbass]

I keep a gun I don't particularly like just because there's nothing special about it - a Rem 870 Express with a factory 21" bbl - just for house duty. I can suprisingly hold my own shooting doves and quail with this gun but it's currently retired to house duty only. I've been tempted to sell it a few times but the market for a used bare-bones 12 ga is a joke so I keep it.

Why?

On an old/dead forum there used to be a guy, think he went by DocRocket, who was married to a nurse. He once related his wife's description of the prognosis of a typical patient shot with a shotgun, and though I can't quote him or her, the jist was it's nearly hopeless - generally the worst gunshot wound to treat.

Knowing what a 12 ga can deliver inside 25 yds, it's no stretch to believe it as gospel. As long as your attacker is beyond muzzle range and thus cannot disarm you, it is hands down the best close-quarter weapon you can lay your hands on.

[DJetAce]

I would think a 12 guage IS a pre-frag of gunkid wet dreams preportion! I have heard of maybe two people take shotgun blast and stand and that's it. At close range a 12 guage is THE stopper. 400 to 500 grains of lead at 1400 fps is no laughing matter. Not only is the energy higher than any of gunkids dream childs but the area of destruction is so much greater.

Gunkid can keep his 'I heard' stuff. I'll keep with the facts. Rathole wounds are not fable while gunkid's yarns are.