Army/Marines pistol

[GBullet]

It's pretty clear that the military is shopping around for a new pistol. Ruger has on their website that Army tankers bought 5000 9mm Ruger KP95D pistols. I have heard that large numbers of Glocks were bought by the Army, too.

Fortunately, the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marines have you and me to tell them what to buy. ;) So, let's help them out.

What pistol and caliber do you think the Army and Marines should buy?

[krept]

Although it's not my favorite by a long shot, I think the Springfield XD would fit the bill. I fear .45 would be too large for small hands if double stack. .40 would be a good step up especially with the large meplat but might be too much recoil as well.

[Wylycoyte]

I don't think they'd get anything extra at all out of a .45 or a .40. Its still a slug moving along at low velocities crushing tissues in its path. A .05 or .10 bump in diameter probably won't account for much of an increase in efficacy compared to the easier recoil control and larger capacity of a good double-stack 9mm.

That said, I like the Glock 17.

[Terry G]

I don't see them switching from the 9MM, and least for the rank and file. Theres an awful lot of 9's to pick from out there, but I haven't heard that the Beretta 92 is not doing the job it was intended for, just some problems with the magazines. I would think for the main the Military will stick with Beretta and issue .45's for special troops and missions. Rumour mill has it the Ruger's were NOT bought for the military but for Government emplyee's and contract security people.

[DaRkWoLf]

Im still in favor of them switching back to a 1911. However, due to the armys constaraints concernig hollow-point and bonded core, might as well take a hot and heavy loaded 9mm.

[RIKA]

Me likeum 1911 45acp too.

RIKA

[tuna]

Although I prefer the .45 also, I really have no big problem with the Beretta. Like has been said a billion times, the magazine springs suck, but I think that is caused by having them constantly loaded. I remember being in Kuwait in 01, and cleaning the magazines in the life support shop out of boredom. After thumbing out the first three or four rounds, there was no pressure brining the rest of the rounds uo. What had happened is that the magazines were loaded years ago, and were handed down / signed over to whatever unit was coming in next. The ones we brought over for Iraqi Freedom didn't have that problem as they were stored empty for years and only loaded once we got in theater, and had plenty of spring when we downloaded them to come home.

[andy]

Given the level of "maintenance" and "ability", and "need" shown by the troops I doubt it makes any diff at all.

[Wylycoyte]

Given the level of "maintenance" and "ability", and "need" shown by the troops I doubt it makes any diff at all.

Right. Brycos and HiPoints for all of them!

[GBullet]

I'll toss out my suggestions. Any of the following:

Kimber 1911 with either 4" or 5" barrel in .45 ACP

Smith & Wesson SW99 in .45

Glock 21 or 22

Ruger P90, P91, or P345

[Hard Ball]

If I were CDTJCFOS I would go for the SIG P220 .45ACP. It is rugged, reliable and accurate out of the box. My wife shoots hers very well so most soldiers should be able to handle it.

[andy]

might as well, since only 1 in 100 will ever even FIRE a pistol in anger, much less get a GOOD hit.

[Garand]

But those that have the ability, should be armed with the best. Soldiers that are involved in a conflict generally take their training very seriously.

[Half elf]

I would like to see a looseing of the regs on personal weapons, and let anyone who can qualify with a pistol, suitable in caliber, and willing to provide their own support, IE ammo maileed from home, or orderd through AAFEES , carry what they are comfortable with. I personally would op for a Sig P-226 in either 9mm, or .357sig, probabily 9mm due to the fmj requirement. I think this would take a large burden off the US Gov, if they allowed those who wanted a back up to provide their own within certain guidlines. IIRC You could order pistols through AAFEES in RVN, and carry if you wanted, but during Desert Storm they had a general order "No Personal Firearms" made very little sense to me.

[stevenms2008]

i say glock-17, i have one and ive never had a problem with it

Hay this is my 100th post

[BigEd63]

If a 9mm Glock 34.

If a .45 an updated 1911A1

If anything "I" want, a double stack magazine 10mm based on an updated P-35.

[84 C4]

If anything "I" want, a double stack magazine 10mm based on an updated P-35.

I like this idea.

[realvenum]

Kimber 1911 with either 4" or 5" barrel in .45 ACP

I LOVE the new black stainless Kimber. It WILL be my next gun.

[JMJ45]

I am new to this forum, however if my opinion matters, 230 grains of jacketed lead is the ultimate in stopping power, and who can deny a well built 1911, regardless of make.

[GBullet]

Welcome to the forum, JMJ45!

[JMJ45]

thanks, I am Jake

[BigJon]

Combat Commander in .45 with an opened port, beavertail, ambi safety, and fixed sights ought to do nicely.

Hey, GB - Stopped by a pawn shop during lunch the other day. Haven't had a nice, juicy big-bore revolver in awhile. Found a surface-rusted 7 1/2 inch New Model Super Blackhawk. You know me ... I just cunna stand it! Guess I'll pick up one of those cammy Galco shoulder pouches so's I can tote it huntin'.

Best,
Jon

[GBullet]

Found a surface-rusted 7 1/2 inch New Model Super Blackhawk. ... Guess I'll pick up one of those cammy Galco shoulder pouches so's I can tote it huntin'.

Hah! For you, a Super Blackhawk is a pocket pistol.

I was drooling over a .357 Blackhawk at a store this weekend. Blackhawks are great hunting revolvers. They're like the Eveready Bunny; they just keep going and going.

[BigJon]

Yep, they are that! This one's just a big chunck of black iron. Came with some old Packmeyer presentation rubber grips. Never could stand those things - hell the freakin' rubber's as hard as wood, so what's the point? Ordered some nice, comfy Hogue rubbers for it. Yea, I like nice, pretty wood, but for a hard punchin' handgun, I'll go for comfort and grip over looks any day.

Best,
Jon

[andy]

soldiers need a Kahr PM9, normally in a buttoned shut pants pocket, fanny pack, or in a sealed plastic bag. They subject pistols to horrible crap, crawling in mud, sand, etc, and then, once in a lifetime when it's needed, they expect it to work. :-)

[Garand]

You would put a defensive handgun in a plastic bag??? You really can't grasp the concept of a handgun to be carried in a combat zone, can you?? Thats right, you have no experience!!

[GBullet]

soldiers...subject pistols to horrible crap, crawling in mud, sand, etc, and then, once in a lifetime when it's needed, they expect it to work.

Very true, but the soldier should be able to trust their equipment.

[BigJon]

Exactly GB - a very close personal friend was a Captain in the USMC during desert storm one. He was in command of one of the first companies to go through the Sadaam line in Southern Kuwait. I asked him how his Beretta did in combat. He said he didn't know - that it was such a worthless piece of crap, especially with the mag problems they had with the gov't contract mags, that he just left his holstered the whole time until it finally just rusted shut. I asked him what he carried as an arm, and he said he picked up an AK off the ground, cleaned and checked it, and carried that.

Jon

[BigJon]

Interesting thought about the plastic bag. I'm not a soldier, and so my experience with such things is nil, but I believe that I have read elsewhere that the situations in which the average soldier is likely to use a sidearm is generally different than those in which a civilian might use one for self defense. I believe one of the discussions I read was in the context of the "condition" in which the Israeli's carry handguns vs. how we do it. Again going on memory, the point was made that the soldier has time (generally, of course) to rack the slide to chamber a round in anticipation of need for the weapon, and so fast presentation and shot are not usually a primary concern. In contrast, they are going to almost always be the concern with civilian defensive use. If that's correct, and again this can only be logic applied to hearsay on my part, wouldn't the plastic bag make sense for the ordinary infantryman, especially as andy said in a form-fitted pants pocket with perhaps a rip-up pocket flap?

Best,
Jon

[BigEd63]

Melvin as an example to some here I'll give credit were it's due.

A holster should help keep crap outta the gun but the holster isssued now, though versatile, does a poor job of it. Plus the open slide of the Berrata don't help none either.

At one time Lowe Pack Co. made a holster that was kinda like a pistol rug or maybe more like a camera bag, but still allowed as quick access to the weapon as a flap holster, IIRC.

[BigJon]

And speaking of the Beretta, this link posted over on TF:

http://www.tradoc.army.mil/pao/TNSarchives/January05/013505.htm

Best,
Jon

[GBullet]

Update:

The Army and Marines are steadily moving toward a new pistol competition. We all know it as the "JCP" competition.

Look for entries from Glock (G21), HK (USP), SIG (talk is of a new model, not the P220, but I don't know for sure), S&W (SW99), and possibly from Ruger (not likely) and Taurus (modified 24/7).

The test data will almost certainly be kept secret, not because of security, but lawsuits. During the early-1980's M9 tests, everybody but Beretta came away mad. Some manufacturers thought those tests were badly flawed and sued.

Glock has been excluded for silly trigger related reasons in the past, but they have widespread support among the troops who have seen them in Iraq. If Taurus fields their 24/7, its grip will make it popular with the test shooters.

GBullet's call: All of these companies make top-notch pistols, but look for a Glock win.

[arebindixie]

I'd vote for the CZ 97 B.

[krept]

Interesting...

G21 isn't hammer fired... and I think Glock actually submitted a question for clarification regarding the requirement in the draft RFP (again actual RFP hasn't been released so we don't know the specific stipulation.) HK has been developing the HK45, a step past the USP series and closer to the P2000, but with a safety lever. SW... can't recall the actual platform but I think it's right up there with HK and SIG... finally SIG... I know they are working on a SA P220 w/manual safety that would appear to approach the specs in the draft RFP.

if the draft request for proposals was indicative of the military's desire for a future platform... it should be one HELL of a fight to the finish, replete with contract lawyers and specialists schebang

[BigJon]

I just can't fathom why Colt wouldn't submit something top drawer to try to get some business back. (They may be, for all I know). I guess they're the General Motors of the gun industry. Dunno.

Best,
Jon

[BigEd63]

....... I guess they're the General Motors of the gun industry. Dunno.

Best,
Jon

I got a sad feeling that may be true.

[brass hammer]

WELL!, i've 'read ' pages #1 and #4[sorry #2 AND#3] the 'PERTAINING-point'
is ARMED-ARMY-'TANKERS'[?],,as IN 'iffin' a ARMY-TANKER NEEDS A '****in'
PISTOL???,,,,he should DIE with his amored-mount.

[****!!! just give the '****in' fumble-dicks the ****in' 5.7mm and say "****-IT!"],,,,as 'IFFIN',,,YOU LOSER A TANK IN MY 'COMMAND' ,,,,best put yer' PISTOL to your OWN HEAD!] :wavey:



[this POST has been TRANSPOSED by 'powers' other than 'ME',,,,as i know what i read/replied to!,,,, :bounce: ]