Light/Laser Combo

[Thirdeyex]

I noticed that more than a few of you employ a shotgun for HD. Do any of you utilize a light or laser or both on your scattergun?

Do you use these items on any of your weapons?

Something like this: http://www.lasermax-inc.com/products/remington.php

[DaRkWoLf]

I, personally, dont use light or lasers. I feel that they give away your position too much.

I know from airsoft that a person with high situational awareness and caution, will find your beam and locate your position. A long time ago, a few friends and I tried out the "beam or no beam" problem in a construction sight, during twilight hours, with airsoft pistols. We found that using a tac light and a beam together or seperately, or just the beam, would get you killed. When I used the beam, I was shot, when I didnt, I survived. When friends tried, same outcome. Beams/Lights got killed, while the other half of the group survived (some exceptions, but rarely, and the beam side never won just got 1 kill). We alternated roles and partners, so it cannot be blamed on airsoft skill level.

I never intend to challenge those results with real lead; as it would most likely be the last thing I do.

[Hard Rock]

Light yes, laser no. I don't use lasers on guns at all with the exception of target aquisition at night with a sniper system.

Mike

[SatCong]

Here ya go Third,
SatCong
PS - I will occasionally mount a low profile (small-tube) red-dot to the rail you see on top of this shotty.

[Chippathingy]

My .02 I posted on Frugals a while back:

Unless you want to spend $400 for a military grade laser, they are not worth it.
Flaws in lower grade lasers include:
1. recoil sensitivity, and subsiquent breakage.
your dot once adjusted will wander all over due to poorly designed internals.
2. Dot travels from zero due to poorly designed adjustment mech. which usually consists of two (x and y) axis screws that do not lock on place and have to be "locktited" in place once adjusted.(especially on $100 "tube" models)
3. poory designed mounting hardware which just like any crappy scope mount will shift under recoil.
4. The unit and accessories (extension wires and switches) are not as water proof as advertised.

The $3-400 units are $3-400 for a reason.

laser pointers are cheap gimmicks and not suitable for firearms usage.
They are fragile, inaccurate ( the beam usually comes out at some wierd angle,) they have no adjustment mechanisms to zero, and they are recoil and impact sensitive, and far from water proof.

The point of having a laser is the extreme accuracy that is implied, a cheap laser will not "repeat" in this way.In fact it will probably not point to the same place for more than 2 shots.
In fact short of the "Hellfire mechanism" cheap lasers are probably the biggest scam of all time.

As far as your question on distance...
you adjust the laser to point of impact with a specific load/firearm combination at a specific range.
Test fire your weapon to see how much above or below the dot it shoots at other ranges and compensate. You do not want to continually read adjust your laser as it will wear it out.

The lasers vary in intensity, and are sold often in terms of range.
The dot at longer ranges will grow exponentially.
some models state that at 200 yards they are 3-4" around. This is intentional, as you cant really see a .06 inch dot at 200 yards very well.

You basically you get what you pay for.
I have shot with lasers before and I dont really see the point, my weapons have sights and they suit me just fine. when you use a laser you have to retrain yourself to look for the dot and this robs you of time.
It is a good way of showing beginners and those that flich their mistakes.
I have seen a macho guy with every gadget imaginable on his gun, including a laser, miss the target 20 feet away as he just didnt know good shooting techniques.
He'd jerk the gun and the dot would zip to the bottom of the target and he would open his eyes and (the gun would have risen back up to shoulder level) and see the holes in the bottom of the target and swear.

Another critism I have is that if you are aiming as a target such as a guy behind a barrier, fench, wall , etc..what good is the dot if he is not sticking out to be "painted" ?

or if your back ground is much farther away from your target how do you "walk" the dot onto it.

or if you have a porous background you can loose the dot , like in between books in a book case or boards of an old fence etc. bushes in your back yard.
I have seen this happen and seen LE guys rip their expensive units of their guns because they could just put their front site on the target in all the scenarios I have described and just blast the target instead of "looking for the laser." and loosing time.

Just some things to consider.
Have fun and get an expensive toy if you want, thats the point right ? We get alot of our arms just for the fun factor.
Just dont get ripped off bro..

The Military use them almost exclusively with night vision equipment in non-visible light bands. IR, etc.
You'll see pics of GIs with a night vision monocular and a laser sight.
For this role it is ideal, as NV goggles of any kind will make it impossible to get any sort of sight picture or cheek weld on your weapon.
Same with gasmasks and the decon hoods that they are playing with in theater.
This affords them a higher degree of precision than point shooting techniques or "full-auto tuck" type antics.
Given the fact they are fighting goons like the elite-lice-infested-republican-guard that don't even know what night vision is half the time, the combo gives them a pretty good advantage.

dot sights.
Trijicon and their ACOG's are top notch and don't use batteries. Some even have tritium "iron" night sights on top of the unit, in the event you render your optics unusable with mud or etc.
They are built tough too.
Aimpoint is good too, but they are battery dependant.
They cost quite a bit less.
Again, dont skimp here either.
Some "dot sites" are just toys and suffer the same problems as the crappy lasers.
There's some good dot sight info @ AR15.com, a site for the "gimmicky gun accessory junkies" amoungst us.

Tac lights are useful. As a civilian especially you have to indentify your target and backstop before firing.
You often will need light to do so. A momentary push button type switch will allow you to flash the target and not be a walking laser/light parade.

If your weapon is pointed at the target and it is armed and hostile why wait to get shot ?
Why would you (airsoft or not) not engage a target once spotted ?
Panning around with a light or laser switched on and not using proper cover is just dumb, of course you will get shot.