C&R Rifles -- favorites?

[Magnum88C]

Since I can't respond to Terry's thread on C&R handguns (don't own any), I figured I'd ask what your favorite C&R rifles are.

I had originally thought that, being a good American, the Springfield would be my favorite, but they just never caught on with me. Likewise the Mausers, everyone says how great they are, and indeed the one I have is a good shooter, very nice rifle, and shoots very cheap ammo. But there just doesn't seem to be a lot fo personality there for some reason.

Now Mosins, I really like. I think it's my love for simple tools. Which is what the Mosin is, a simple, tough-as-hell rifle meant to be operated by simple ham-fisted peasants in any terrain or climate. It's not a very refined design, but it meets its expectations in spades, and is definitely worth what they are going for. But still not my favorites.

My favorite would have to be the No4 Enfield. The No1s and No1 MkIIIs are very nice, and have the finest bayonets (the MkIIIs at any rate), but the No4s really do it for me. The buttery smooth action, powerful chambering and the finest battlesights of the bolt action battle rifles

[RIKA]

All I have is the 1903 Springfield and the MN mod 38. Of the two the Springfield is my favorite. Its a deadly accurate and handsome rifle with buttery smooth action and chambered for the 30-06. That said, I still want an Enfield.

RIKA

[Garand]

I took out my Lee Enfield #4 Mk 1(T) out today and I am so happy with it. I ran a number of 3 rd groups out at 100 yds and each one had snake eyes or were touching, with generally the 3rd shot a flyer 1/2" out(shooter problem). This was with Cdn Mk 8z Ball ammo. I was getting ready to head out to 200 & 300 yds when a couple of friends showed up and it became a dog & pony show with no more shooting. While the rifle won't see alot of shooting because of its collector value, its nice to know that if required. I've got a match next weekend so it will be a couple of weeks till I can start building loads for it.

[RIKA]

Glad that your Mark1 (T) shot so well. A complete matching sniper rifle like that is rarer than gold. I'm glad that you got yours.

RIKA :)

[Flinter]

My favorite is probably the SKS. Simple, cheap, accurate and tough as nails. I own a Russian and a Yugoslavian. My Russian is darn near 100%......the Yugo is beat to heck on the outside and near new on the inside.

I've always wanted an Enfield, just for woods roaming. Good looking rifles. There's a company out of Martinsburg WV (can't remember the name right now) that has made a whole business out of customizing them. They even have a stainless finished synthetic stocked one that they market as a "survival gun". I think it has some fish hooks and a few matches in the buttstock or something.

I have a M-N 91/30 on the way. I can't wait........I'm like a kid at Christmas. I have exactly one round for it so far. An old Remington load that had sat in our barn for about 40 years. I want to fire it to see if how you store ammo is really that important. It was kept fairly dry (no direct water contact, but all the windows were busted out) but it wasn't in a temperature controlled enviroment. Ah heck, that's another thread....... :dgrin:

Rika.......how stiff is the recoil on that M38? I've thought about buying my son one for this deer season. He's 11 1/2 right now........be almost 12 by the time deer season comes back around.

[Magnum88C]

I'm not RIKA, but own quite a few Mosins :D
The M38 and M44 kick pretty good. Remember you are shooting a .30-06 class round out of a 20" rifle. The recoil isn't bad IF you're used to firing full-power rifles. There are two things that seem to amplify the recoil, however. First is the steel buttplate. There is no forgiveness at all to be had with this. you can try the slip-on recoil pads, but him being that young, it would probably make the length of pull too long, and end up making it even less comfortable. The other thing is psychological -- the short rifles have an enormous muzzle blast. They are incredibly loud and throw a huge fireball, making one think they are hitting harder than they really are.

Suggestions on the recoil:
1.) if he can do so, wearing a shot-filled shoulder pad is good.
2.) Buy the M44 instead, they weigh quite a bit more, and that helps absorb recoil.
3.) Don't shoot from the bench. Shoot offhand, or kneeling. He can rest the rifle on sandbags or something, but don't have him put his body in a rigid position liek he'd be at on the bench, tucked up behind the rifle.


Short Mosins at the range:
M38s
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/Magnum88C/BLAST5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/Magnum88C/FireBall.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/Magnum88C/M38flash02.jpg

M44 Cookout
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/Magnum88C/M44_cooking.jpg

[arebindixie]

I like Lee Enfields but the rifle to end all C&R rifles is the Krag Jorgensen. Buttery smooth action and sexy looks.

[Wylycoyte]

I've always wanted an Enfield, just for woods roaming. Good looking rifles. There's a company out of Martinsburg WV (can't remember the name right now) that has made a whole business out of customizing them. They even have a stainless finished synthetic stocked one that they market as a "survival gun". I think it has some fish hooks and a few matches in the buttstock or something.

Gibbs Rifle Company.

http://www.gibbsrifle.com/

[Magnum88C]

Friends don't let friends buy Gibbs.

[Wylycoyte]

Friends don't let friends buy Gibbs.

I've heard the same...their .303-->.308 Enfield conversions were crap.

[41mag]

Hmmm,I'll be contrary.I really like my K-31 Swiss.I have Mosins of all sizes,an Enfield,a M1895 Steyr(haven't shot this one yet but it should be quite the shoulder blaster),& a couple of Mausers.The Springfield has never really done a lot for me.

I think that the Enfileld would be my second choice.

The older Swiss Vetterli rifles really intrigue me.They were originally chambered for a 10.4(?)mm rimfire round.Kinda hard to come by.I did run accross a site that gave directions about converting to a custom centerfire round,IIRC it was kinda like a BP version of the 41mag(:)) handgun round.We'll see.

Magnum?You do special handloads to impregnate the spices on those dogs?

[Flinter]

Friends don't let friends buy Gibbs.

Forgive my ignorance, but what's the problem with Gibbs? I've never dealt with them. I do know that they are in the old Navy Arms building, and those guys were some of the worst thieves in the gun world. Maybe it's run by the same people? I dunno.

That is some serious muzzle flash. Love the hotdog pic. :rofl:

[T. Daves]

Ifired the #4 today and was very pleased with its performance. Dad went with and shot it for the first time in 25yrs. He had forgoten how good it handled. I think he's sorry he gave it to me. Need to find some linseed oil for the stock, it's a little dry.

[RIKA]

Rika.......how stiff is the recoil on that M38? I've thought about buying my son one for this deer season. He's 11 1/2 right now........be almost 12 by the time deer season comes back around.

Flinter, Magnum gives excellent advice. That M38 recoil is stiff - not the thing to start a young man on. If you are determined to start your son on the MN, I would suggest your making up some reduced power handloads to start on and maybe even to hunt with.

RIKA

[Magnum88C]

I've heard the same...their .303-->.308 Enfield conversions were crap.
ALL of their conversions are crap.
Forgive my ignorance, but what's the problem with Gibbs? I've never dealt with them. I do know that they are in the old Navy Arms building, and those guys were some of the worst thieves in the gun world. Maybe it's run by the same people? I dunno.

That is some serious muzzle flash. Love the hotdog pic. :rofl:
Well, Gibbs has some wonderful ideas about rifles. They'd make some really good packin' guns for extended trips on the trail -- EXCEPT their implementation is simply atrocious. Guns that won't shoot any better than buckshot patterns, barrels over torqued, rechambered barrels with out-of-round chambers, guns disassembling thenselves in your hand while firing them. . .little problems like that.

It's really a shame, first because they are butchering perfectly good rifles (their "Jungle carbines" are really chopped No4s), and because those butchered rifles are garbage when they're done.

[Magnum88C]

Hmmm,I'll be contrary.I really like my K-31 Swiss.I have Mosins of all sizes,an Enfield,a M1895 Steyr(haven't shot this one yet but it should be quite the shoulder blaster),& a couple of Mausers.The Springfield has never really done a lot for me.

I think that the Enfileld would be my second choice.

The older Swiss Vetterli rifles really intrigue me.They were originally chambered for a 10.4(?)mm rimfire round.Kinda hard to come by.I did run accross a site that gave directions about converting to a custom centerfire round,IIRC it was kinda like a BP version of the 41mag(:)) handgun round.We'll see.
I've heard nothing but good things about the K31 and the 1911 Schmidt-Rubins. But, having never fired one, I can't comment.

Magnum?You do special handloads to impregnate the spices on those dogs?
LOL, I don't think those guys used anything but milsurp ammo at that BBQ, although I'd think the 7.62x54R's original blackpowder loading would be the better choice for seasoning the food you're about to flash-fry. Considering the flash you get from smokeless powder, I can only imagine what they got from BP.

[Magnum88C]

Ifired the #4 today and was very pleased with its performance. Dad went with and shot it for the first time in 25yrs. He had forgoten how good it handled. I think he's sorry he gave it to me. Need to find some linseed oil for the stock, it's a little dry.
They've got Savage No4s for sale fairly cheap now, you could always pick one up and give him a present.

[KJUN]

My Mosin M38 has felt recoil that is MUCH worse than my .30-06's! I would NOT encourage you to get one for a smaller kid! If you must, put a new stock on it with a really good recoil pad. It'll still be a mule, though! NOT a recommendation.

Besides, you'll havbe to put a scope on it, change the sites out, or it is likely that it'll hit real high at 100 yards.

I better choice, IF you don't mind the semi-autop for him, would be an SKS. Mine shoot well enough for hunting at under 100 yards or so. Do a number on hogs...

KJ


My favorite is probably the SKS. Simple, cheap, accurate and tough as nails. I own a Russian and a Yugoslavian. My Russian is darn near 100%......the Yugo is beat to heck on the outside and near new on the inside.

I've always wanted an Enfield, just for woods roaming. Good looking rifles. There's a company out of Martinsburg WV (can't remember the name right now) that has made a whole business out of customizing them. They even have a stainless finished synthetic stocked one that they market as a "survival gun". I think it has some fish hooks and a few matches in the buttstock or something.

I have a M-N 91/30 on the way. I can't wait........I'm like a kid at Christmas. I have exactly one round for it so far. An old Remington load that had sat in our barn for about 40 years. I want to fire it to see if how you store ammo is really that important. It was kept fairly dry (no direct water contact, but all the windows were busted out) but it wasn't in a temperature controlled enviroment. Ah heck, that's another thread....... :dgrin:

Rika.......how stiff is the recoil on that M38? I've thought about buying my son one for this deer season. He's 11 1/2 right now........be almost 12 by the time deer season comes back around.

[Magnum88C]

Side note: the "shooting high" problem most people have is from shooting ehavy ammo from teh Mosins. The sights were regulated to 148-gr ammo. Most commercial ammo is 180-gr (using bullets for the .303) or 203-gr. Surplus ammo, a lot of it is 174 or 184 grain heavy ball, which is meant for machine guns and sniper rifles (safe to shoot in Mosins, BTW). ALL of the heavier ammo will shoot high at 100 yards.

[KJUN]

Yeah, but does anyone load a lighter projectile for HUNTING in the 7.62x54R? I reloader can get around that, but they can also get around the stiff recoil. He might be planning to taylor some loads for his son, but I didn't think that was his plan from the phrasing of the original question (if I remember reading it correctly).

I would like to try some lighter factor loads for HUNTING in mine. I didn't know they had any. Can you point me in a good direction? I think the Rem were heavy. I know the S&B is. Well, I THINK I know it is. I'd have to go out in storage and pull a box to check for sure, though.

KJ

[RIKA]

Just checked my stash. Wolf Performance Ammo. 7.62x54R 148gr Bimetal FMJ. I got it at the gunshow; they also had 148gr SP. Bought the FMJ because it was a lot cheaper and I carry the MN for fun and just knocking around.

RIKA

[Magnum88C]

RIKA beat me to it, Wolf has 148-gr SP ammo.
Look close before you buy, though, they also load a 200-gr load.

IF you reload, Sierra makes a 150-gr Pro-hunter.

[Flinter]

Thanks for the responses guys. I defeninately won't get him a M-N, or at least not one for right now. I've never shot one (yet) so I wasn't sure. I thought it may make a good beater for him to start with, but I don't want him flinching either. Probably go with my original idea which was a Hand-Rifle in .243. He wants a .223, but they never really impressed me on deer sized critters.

Magnum........that's a shame about Gibbs. Those 45-70 Enfields looked interesting. I'd have considered on of those. You probably just saved me 400 bucks.

KJUN........I had considered my SKS for him, maybe even one of my AK's. The guy who's land I hunt on would probably frown on that though. He likes assault weapons himself, but when I mentioned letting my son take my AK last year I thought he was going to have a stroke.........he volunteered to loan me a model 7 he had pretty quick.

[KJUN]

I knew wold had the "light" FMJ. I've got some. I don't consider FMJ a hunting round, though. I've used the S&B SP. I haven't used to Rem Soft Core Lokt yet, but would like to. I haven't even thought about hunting with the MN reloads yet - I was just asking about factory loads.

KJ

[Magnum88C]

Well, like RIKA said,
Just checked my stash. Wolf Performance Ammo. 7.62x54R 148gr Bimetal FMJ. I got it at the gunshow; they also had 148gr SP. Bought the FMJ because it was a lot cheaper and I carry the MN for fun and just knocking around.

RIKA
That's probably the only commercial hunting ammo in the proper weight you'll find right now. Since the7.62x54R uses .311 bullets like the Enfield, the other companies just use the Enfield bullets (who's proper weight is 174 grains), instead of producing 148-grainers.

[Flinter]

If anyone is interested, I got my Mosin-Nagant today. Looks pretty good. The stock has a few dings in it, but the blueing is probably 98%. Good deep riflings and not a spot of rust on it anywhere. Numbers match on the reciever and bolt.......there's a few little nicks in the crown but I don't think it's going to affect the shooting of it. All seem far enough back that I don't think the bullet will touch them. If it does, well I guess I'll just recrown it. The rating on the box was "very good" and I would agree. Not in mint condition, but a good deal better than some I've seen floating around. Dunhams had them and they looked like they were stored in a car trunk with a couple jacks and tire irons for about 40 years. Overall, I'm happy.

I have to go in for a 12 hour shift tonight so I don't really have time to play with it, but one thing is bothering me. I assume the windage is adjusted by drifting the front sight, but how do you adjust elevation........short of a file? In the 20 minutes or so I had to play with it I can't figure it out.

I'm off to Longhunter School on Thurday, probably spend most of tomorrow night packing my gear up so if I don't make it back on before I leave.......thanks in advance.

[Magnum88C]

You slide the rear sight up and down to the desired range. If you mean fine-tuning the elevation, you don't. They were sighted in at the factory, or when rearsenaled. The soldier in the field was not to touch the sights. Even windage is not supposed to be adjusted, ask anyone who's done it -- it takes 3 people and a vise, one to hold the rifle in the vise, one to hold the brass drift and the third to hit it with the sledgehammer. But seriously, it is a bit difficult to drift.
I'd recommend trying it with Wolf 148-gr FMJ, or Czech silvertip 148-gr ammo (it's what it is sighted in for, the heavier rounds available shoot high. Also, Russian soldiers were to keep the bayonet on the rifle at all times, and the rifle is sighted in with the bayonet fixed. Firing it without the bayonet can have little effect or a dramatic effect on both point of impact and group size. I'd fire it with bayonet attached. . .plus it looks cooler -- hell a 91/30 is 5'5" with the bayonet on it!

[KJUN]

If anyone is interested, I got my Mosin-Nagant today.
Congrats. I love them. It's killing me, though, because my new Yugo Model 59 SKS's and Yugo M48 Mauser were supposed to arrive today, but I wasn't here to sign for them. I've got to wait until tomorrow....ARGHHHHH

KJ

[KJUN]

> Probably go with my original idea which was a Hand-Rifle in .243.

I had one I picked up a while back. It was the youth model version with synthetic stock. It would shoot REAL well if you went 10-15 minutes between shots for the barrel to cool. If not, you had verticle stringing for the first couple of rounds. After 5 or 6 shots within as many minutes, you were lucky to be on paper at 100 yards. :(

> He wants a .223, but they never really impressed me on deer sized critters.

Same here.

>I had considered my SKS for him, maybe even one of my AK's. The guy who's land I hunt on would probably frown on that though. He likes assault weapons himself, but when I mentioned letting my son take my AK last year I thought he was going to have a stroke.........he volunteered to loan me a model 7 he had pretty quick

Ignore this if it is too personal of a question, but do you think he would have reacted that way if you wanted to use an AK or is it just that the idea of a youth hunting with one makes him a little concerned about safety. I can't blame him there. You could always get a Yugo 59/66 and flip up the gas shut off valve....lol.

[Flinter]

[QUOTE=Magnum88C] If you mean fine-tuning the elevation, you don't./QUOTE]

Yep, that's what I meant. Hard for me to contemplate a rifle who's sights you can't adjust. Guess I'll find out this weekend whether or not they are correct.

One last question......the ladder adjustment on the M-N is calibrated for "arshins" right? Not meters/yards?

Thanks.

[BigEd63]

Well you casn fine tune M/N sight by carefully filing down the bottom of the rear sight elevator. It dose not show at all and it works. I've done this on Mausers as well. Just be sure and do this aftere you choose a certain type/brand of ammo you will be sticking with.

[Garand]

Does this count? My 1913 .38-55 Winchester Model M94 Rifle.

[RIKA]

Yep. That 38-55 sure is pretty and highly desirable.

RIKA

[copycat]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/copycat/mosin3.jpg

It shoots real well. God this could be bad, I think I'm hooked went by and looked at a 91\30 today $123.00 (no transfer charge).
Well at least I'm not hooked on drugs.

[Garand]

That is some very nice wood!

[RIKA]

Beautiful rifle. Those things are addictive.

RIKA

[Garand]

I've got a Cowboy Match tomorrow, rumour has it that I'll becoming home with another Winchester M97 takedown shotgun. Gotta love rumours! Now did I remember to pack my cheque book for the match???

[BoltTurner]

Oh sure, why not just ask me who my favoite kid is?

I'd have to say my Mosins are my favoites. I particularly like the 91/30s and the M91s.
Enfields would be a close second. The No4s are fine shooters, and there's just something lovable about that pug nose on the No1 MkIIIs.

Similarly, I like the long barreled Mausers, the shorter carbines don't do much for me.

Right now I'm looking for a nice 1911 S-R and it's younger cousin, the K-31 to my collection.

[arebindixie]

Magnum........that's a shame about Gibbs. Those 45-70 Enfields looked interesting. I'd have considered on of those. You probably just saved me 400 bucks.



I have a Mauser '98 action that now has a Douglas barrell in .45-70. I need to get the bolt done, buy a trigger, and figure out what route I'll go with wood and sights. While not as sexy as an Enfield, I am confident it will do well.