The New Pope...

[DaRkWoLf]

Im sitting back, looking at this whole event unfold; I dont even know the mans name yet (his new pope name is Pope Benedict II) and Im somewhat discouraged. I am not a christian, so I am not caught up in all of the ceremonial joys of selecting a new pope. Im looking at this with an open mind.

My complaint:

The pope said that he was drafted against his will into the Nazi Party and served in an anti aircraft unit. He also claimed he wanted to be a cardinal since he was the age of 5 in kindergarten.

The reason it makes me irritated is that he knowingly took his personal saftey before the calls of his religion (which is a no no for the pope, or any key religious leader) and even acted contrary to his religions teachings. He was easilly capable of joining the anti-nazi youth movement in germany (they wore a white rose, I forgot their actual group name; all were killed before wars end) and died with dignity and honor of A) Standing up for himself B) Standing up for his teachings (do unto others as your would have done unto you is a Christian teaching, I dont even need to go into the Nicene creed).

I may of actually preferd if he willingly joind the Nazis, at least he would only have made an ethical miscalculation, yet have the honor of working for his homeland (from our perspective it is wrong, at that time, many germans thought they were right, reference Social Darwinism, we practiced it for a while too) but hed also show that he had the balls to take action.

I in no way condone social darwinism or nazism, dont even think it for a second.

I want to see how he "rules" and what his effects on the world and my belief are.

[stevenms2008]

and what are your beliefs

[Magnum88C]

Two points:
1.) the pope is catholic, not Christian, and no, they aren't the same.
2.) The pope of the time wholeheartedly supported Hilter and the Nazi party, in public speeches, AND the Catholic church was the body instrumental in smuggling war criminals out of Germany and hiding them from the rest of the world. I daresay the new pope is lying and joined willingly, but it isn't PC to say so at this time.

[DaRkWoLf]

Indeed, pure Christianity and Catholicism are two distinctly different things. Christianity has the resemblance (key word, resemblance) of a philosophy while catholicism is a religion in every sense of the word.

Yes, the RCC supported the Third Reich as well as participating in the Odessa Project. However, it is to my uinderstanding that the Nicene Creed plays a role in every christin denomination, catholicism no exception. Just because the leading body violated it dosent make it any more acceptable.

Your last statement may also be true Mag88. In fact I would favor that. It is not PC to say it, yet a pope with the proverbial balls is much better than the pope without them.

I know this is an unpopular opinion, yet I feel it is valid.

It brings up a very good question for the pensiveness forum:

Which is worse: A person with a a socially unacceptable past that accounts for it, or a person that shoves it under the rug via lies to try and make a fresher start?

[RIKA]

I am not sure that the new Pope has successfully accounted for his socially unacceptable post. However, I will not judge him but let his actions prove his worth. BTW I am not catholic.

RIKA

[41mag]

Let's see.He's 78 now.Take away 60 years since the end of the war.That makes him an 18 year old in 1945.Now,how many 18,17,16,15,12...year olds can be counted on to make informed decisions for themselves & there futures now?& how many in an isolated,insular country like Germany was between the Wars?Nazi party propaganda was designed to suck people in-to make them feel good about themselves.I see nothing wrong w/a good snake oil salesman myself.That these people let themselves be corrupted is another story.I expect kids to be even more easily sold on a deal than adults.IOWs,it doesn't suprise me that a German youth from the Twenties was a party member.Now,I know that there are a few youngsters here & it's not my intention to irritate them.I think that an internet connected youth of 2005 has alot more information available to them than their compatriart in 1940.

I say-the Pope is 78.He's likely to last for only a few,maybe a dozen,years.I think that there could have been a whole lot worse choice made.He'll be O.K.

Big shoes to fill though.

[KJUN]

I may of actually preferd if he willingly joind the Nazis, at least he would only have made an ethical miscalculation, yet have the honor of working for his homeland (from our perspective it is wrong, at that time, many germans thought they were right, reference Social Darwinism, we practiced it for a while too) but hed also show that he had the balls to take action.

The war wasn't any worse than what we've done ourselves under Manifest Destiny. The deaths unrelated to war (genocide, etc.) were horrible, but we locked up Americans in concerntration camps during that same war, too. The gassing and other painful methods of death by the Germans are not excusable, but neither is the things often ignored done by our allies in that same war. Just remember that the WINNER writes the history books.

Other than that, I'll refuse to coment. I try to ignore as much about the catlicks as I can.
KJ

[DaRkWoLf]

Of course the "relocation camps" are inexcusable!

In the case of this pope, what we did isnt an issue, but what he chose or didnt choose to do.

[Coyote]

To hell with PC. I wanted the black guy to win.

If the new pope was 18 in 1945, that means he was 12 in 1939. Everyone in Germany was Hitler Youth, there was no choice in the matter. You cant hold a 78 year old man accountable for his political affiliations when he was 12.

[stevenms2008]

i agree with coyote, am i the only catholic here? I feel so alone :bawling:

[arebindixie]

i agree with coyote, am i the only catholic here? I feel so alone :bawling:

I'm Anglican. Is that close enough for government work? :)

[GBullet]

i agree with coyote, am i the only catholic here? I feel so alone :bawling:

I was raised Methodist, but along with my sister, attended Catholic school. Does that make me amphibious?

In Catholic school, we had to learn all about the beliefs. Like the other boys, I had to plan Wednesday mass occasionally.

Most of the Priests were pretty cool, but the Sisters had no sense of humor about our pranks. The Priest who presided over the school was the favorite of all the kids. He had been a lightweight boxer.

The math and science education at that school was far superior to any other in my region in those years. In my classes, I was the token non-Catholic, but they always treated me just like the other kids and I have fond memories of the school.

[stevenms2008]

im kinda the opposite i go to a christian school and im one of two catholics there the other ones an idiot

[Coyote]

the other ones an idiot
It wont be the last one you meet.

[stevenms2008]

i have met many idiots