Your thoughts on "Bubba"

[Terry G]

You know the guy, hacksaw in one hand and Cheaper Than Dirt accessory catalog in the other. Usually it's C&R rifles, but not above "customizing" anything he get's his hands on. Colt 1911's with the slide cut with a hacksaw to shorten it, and then crudely welded back together. A really nice S&W M66 that some idiot "tuned" with a file so it might shoot once in three trigger pulls. It goes on and on. The worst I saw was a mint 1873 .45/70 Springfield Trapdoor rifle that some genius tried to turn into a carbine by cutting up the stock and hacksawing the barrel. I guess the way to look at it is it's their gun, they can do what they wish. It still makes me slightly sick.

[DaRkWoLf]

I uber-bubba'd that carcano. Thats about it though. The guy I got it from gave it to me with the express intention of me bubbaing it.

One day Im going to try and rebarrel that thing to something else, juset for the heck of it, but thats way off the radar at this time.

[RIKA]

I don't like Bubba but you're right, he can do anything he likes to his own gun. If the gun comes up for sale at a good price, I might buy it if I think I can repair or restore it. Otherwise, I just shed a silent tear as I pass.

RIKA

[KJUN]

I guess the way to look at it is it's their gun, they can do what they wish. It still makes me slightly sick.

Just like it makes anti-gunners sick to think we own any guns at all?

I like this quote from surplusrifle:

The problem is that I always get email chastising me that I have "bubba-ized" a military rifle. Not that I really care what others think. If I did I probably would not publish my thoughts in such a public forum. The term bubba-ize when applied to a military surplus firearm means that the owner has taken a collectible firearm and permanently modified it to be used as a "huntin' rifle". Usually a Bubba-ized rifle cannot be returned to its original military configuration because something has either been cut off or welded on. I agree with the ideology that to Bubba-ize a collectible rifle is bad. But I only apply the ideology to me. I would never publicly criticize anyone, stating: "Hey - you ruined a beautiful, wonderful, collectible military firearm!" I might think it, but I would never be so self-righteous as to say it out loud or actually write it in a forum as I have seen a few folks do! What makes this country great is freedom. The basic freedom that what you do with your own rifle or pistol is your own business and not mine or really anyone else's for that matter!"

That about wraps up where my feelings go.....
KJ

[41mag]

So last night I was looking for an article about Automag pistols.I found it in a 1974 issue of Guns & Ammo.I re-read different articles through it.(I miss the cigarette ads-some of them were pretty funny :()Including one about converting Mauser 98 surplus rifles from 8mm into '-06,7x57,.358-06,& etc.Seems that Bubba has been around likely since there was something to bubba-up.The sensitivity seems fairly recent.

My opinion?Most of my mil-surps I either already have or soon will have 2-3 of each type.I think that really grungy rifles are a canidate for some type of repair/replace/bubbaing(bu-bang?!lol!).But only the grungy ones.

[RIKA]

Back in the 1920's through the 1950's companys like Griffin & Howe and Sedgely along with artists like Alvin Linden turned surplus military rifles - mostly 1903 Springfields - into exquisite works of art. People bought these beautiful rifles to hunt with and even just to have. I don't see how anybody could call those rifles "Bubba-ized". But then those rifles were quite common and sold as surplus for as little as $5-$10. Nowadays really nice specimens of those rifles are very rare. Why take a collectible and butcher it up? Why not just sell it to a collector and buy a good used Remington, Savage or Ruger. I think its perfectly okay to sporterize a grungy Nagant or Mauser if it has no collector's value but please sell Terry and me your good ones. :)

RIKA

[Flinter]

I'd agree with that RIKA. I'm a natural "tinkerer". I have plans to bubba the Nagant I just bought. Well, not bubba it so much as just personalize it (ever seen a flintlock trade gun? I have plans to turn my Nagant into the ugliest, gawdiest rifle you've ever seen!) which I feel is ok because there are thousands of them out there. If it were a rare piece, I wouldn't do it. The beautiful thing about it all is that it gives me a chance to practice my gunsmithing on something that cost me 100 bucks.

[Magnum88C]

Here comes the patented Magnum Toe Crusher.
Yep, bubba-izing is wrong. Yeah, it's your rifle and you can do what you want with it, but to me that's like saying "she's my wife I can beat her if I want". Yeah, you can, but it doesn't make it right.

Bubba-izing, in the broadest sense, means to permanently alter a historical firearm, meaning one that is no longer produced, it doesn't have to be collectable or "important". The only time "sporterizing" can really be condoned is if some idiot already bubba-ed it. Like one Mosin that had the bayonet assembly ground off, and the barrel shortened beyond the original hanguards, and the receiver had been tapped. The guy who bought it did the best he could to make a real rifle out of it. That guy didn't bubba-ize it, the guy before did.

And yeah, I will tell you it's wrong. Best thing to do is not ask "hey y'all ain't this a nice bubba job?"

:madeuce::uzi:

[KJUN]

Here comes the patented Magnum Toe Crusher.
Yep, bubba-izing is wrong. Yeah, it's your rifle and you can do what you want with it, but to me that's like saying "she's my wife I can beat her if I want". Yeah, you can, but it doesn't make it right.

I can't believe you compared changing a rifle to beating a woman. I know you were just making a comparison, but isn't that pretty extreme? That's like saying clipping your toe nails is no different than cutting your foot off. No, it isn't even like that. It's comparing an inanimate object that you can actually own and possess to beating a person.

I know you don't think that way, but I don't think that is a comparison I could read and NOT point out the flaws in!

KJ

[T. Daves]

If to bubba-ize a firearm is to permanently change it than all these military rifles were screwed from the start, what with the stock indentions and the stamping done on the action to tell you it went through some kind of test to make sure it was safe to shoot.

[Magnum88C]

No, because it was done while they were current-production.
Very little is done to those guns once they are out of production/out of service, usually one last aresenal refit, and that's it, and they aren't changed from their original configuration.

[Terry G]

This is a follow up thread since I'm not talking aesthetics here,but greasy old dollars. Okay, it's your Mauser, SKS, Enfield or Mosin-Nagant. You want to 'personalize"it. Certainly your right to do so. But before you do, make sure you either are going to keep it or don't mind taking a loss when you sell it. When that saw touches that barrel, it's no longer in any way a "collectible" piece. Switching stocks is no problem, as long as you hang on to the old one , but if you cut up the stock, dollar value goes down. When you grind off that bayonet lug on the Mosin-Nagants or remove the grenade launcher from the Yugoslavian SKS's you have changed the status of the weapon forever. The argument I hear most often is "there are millions of SKS's in this country, their never going to be collectable". Wrong. People are already collecting SKS's. The Chinese SKS's are going for about $200.00 to $250.00 more than they cost a few short years ago. Permanently alter one and nobody's interested. Sure there are a lot of military surplus rifles and pistols around. But they are NOT MAKING ANY MORE. Remember after WWII there were literally millions of Springfield '03's, M-1 Grarands, M-1 Carbines around, too. They never got rare or collectible did they? Like I say, it's your gun, be my guest. But I'll keep mine stock or at least not make any changes that can't be easily reversed. When I wanted an AK, I bought one. I didn't buy an SKS and try to make it into an AK. I looked at the "accessories" needed for this type of "conversion" and you can spend more on a top notch SKS and all the bells and whistles needed than if you just bought an AK clone. OK, off the soap box. Whatever you do, enjoy these old war horses.

[Magnum88C]

That's like the Mosin Nagants. People think there's an inexhaustable supply, but there's already several variants that are very hard to get and command close to $1000.

The other argument for leaving an historical rifle the hell alone, is money. It's be cheaper to follow RIKA's idea of refurbing a commercial gun, buying a Savage commercial gun, or buying a NEW barreled action and making whatever you want out of it. Those paths are almost always cheaper in the end, easier to do, and look better than hacking up an historical piece.

For instance, a common one I come across: Bubba wants to "sporterize" a Mosin. He almost invariably picks a 91/30 (M38s and Finns are too expensive, ya see), so he has to cut it down, because he's a bufoon in the woods and can't handle a rifle with a barrel longer than his willie (or he reads the internet and thinks everyone needs a short barreled gun). of course now the stock doesn't fit, so he takes off the forward handguards and files down the rear of the stock into "sporter" configuration (which would have looked better if he'd have just let a rabid beaver gnaw on it a while). Then, he's got to scope it, because he believes the gun-shop commando drivel that noone can hit with irons. Can't use a no-gunsmithing mount, oh no, "them there reel deer rifles have the receiver tapped to mount the scope", so he drills and taps the receiver. Either paying a gunsmith more than the rifle cost to do it, or does it himself, ensuring the holes are off center and crooked. Oh damn, the latest whiz-bang bullet isn't available in 7.62x54R, so now he has to have it rebarreled to .30-06. He just wanted the chamber reamed, but found out from the gunsmith that .308 diameter bullets don't shoot well from a .311 barrel.
Now he's destroyed a good rifle in order to have a cheap, ugly deer gun.
Yet what he should have done is gone and bought a Savage kit in .30-06.
It would have been a shorter barrel, like he wanted.
It would have been chambered in .30-06, like he wanted.
It would have come with a cheap scope like he wanted (never seen a destroyed mil-surp with a Leupold or Schmidt and Bender scope on it).
It would have come in sporter configuration, like he wanted.
It would have been ready out of the box, unlike what he got.

. . .and. . .

IT WOULD HAVE COST LESS.

For all those who don't like my outlook, please remember I DID make allowance for rifles already destroyed. . .go ahead and do your best with 'em. Of course I think one should return them to mil-spec if possible, but if you can't. . .

[RIKA]

Magnum's answer is reasonable and one that us amateur gunsmiths can live with. I will never try to convert a historical weapon. Theres a few out there that I sure will try to restore when I run across them though.

RIKA

[KJUN]

the grenade launcher from the Yugoslavian SKS's you have changed the status of the weapon forever.

Nah, you can unthread them and then put them back on later. You must mean if you remove the threads, too.

Permanently alter one and nobody's interested.

I wouldn't say nobody......

[Garand]

KJUN, what magnum said is correct. Bubba-izing a rifle and beating a woman are indecent, dispicable actions!!

[Terry G]

Nah, you can unthread them and then put them back on later. You must mean if you remove the threads, too.



I wouldn't say nobody......Have you ever unthreaded one and then put it back on? Give it a try, and let me know the results. Most are cut off, not unscrewed. When I said no one, I referred to people that know the value of an un-altered C&R as opposed to an altered one. Also, the C&R status is GONE if the weapon is permantly altered. Check ATFE on this one if you have doubts.

[KJUN]

Have you ever unthreaded one and then put it back on?

Nope. I'm not interested, BUT there are instructions WITH images available online. It can be done. Many (Most?) are cut off because they want to make them kalifornia legal (and similar crap). Unthreading them wouldn't do that.

Altering them permanantly does remove the C&R status; however, it seems like on the ones imported as C&R (that would be illegal to import otherwise like the Yugo SKS) ONLY would be illegal to change AT ALL. Some letters I've read from BATFE strongly implies that it is illegal to even put a replacement receiver cover with a scope mount on a recently imported Yugo SKS. I can't comment on that, but I know I put mine back to original as soon as I read those letters.



...and to the other post, I still think someone who compares Bubba-izing a gun to beating a woman is making beating a woman sound like much more of a trivial mattert than it is. Sorry.

KJ

[BigEd63]

So modifying one to take AK-47 magazines is a no no then?

[Magnum88C]

Mabu, from what I hear, there isn't much you can do with a Yugo SKS that won't take away its C&R status. For some reason, the ATF is being really hard assed on this one.
'Sides, if you want AK mags, use an AK -- the reliability of the SKS is usually compromised when you go away from the fixed mags.

[KJUN]

Mabu, from what I hear, there isn't much you can do with a Yugo SKS that won't take away its C&R status. For some reason, the ATF is being really hard assed on this one.
'Sides, if you want AK mags, use an AK -- the reliability of the SKS is usually compromised when you go away from the fixed mags.

I BELIEVE that is because they are only legal in the US as C&R. Take away that and Bush, Sr.'s, ban make them illegal to import. The question is: if it is legally imported as C&R and you change ANYTHING and it loses its C&R status, does it become an illegally imported gun?

From what I've read, it seems like it does become a federally violation. That makes no sense to me, but it might have to do with the minimum number od US made parts on a non-C&R firearm, though. Strange, and scary.
KJ

[Magnum88C]

I would say yes, because you are changing its status to something that would no longer have been legal to import. Makes as much sense as any gun legislation. . .none.

[KJUN]

Makes as much sense as any gun legislation. . .none.

Yeah, good point there.
KJ