Homemade Magpulls

[mrostov]

Here is a combat proven method for homemade magpulls that's:

a) Less expensive than commercial magpulls
b) More compact than commercial magpulls
c) Allows empties to be rapidly clipped to a carabiner

For each mag you cut a 6 inch section of paracord. You then remove the inside lines from the paracord so all you have is the shell. If you are obsessively thrifty, measure out the full length that you will need, remove the inner lines, and then cut the shell into 6 inch sections, then you have some nylon string to play with.

With a lighter, lightly melt the end of each cut piece a just enough to seal it from fraying.

Then you tie a knot in each of each piece, making the knot as close to the end of the piece as you can get it. A Leatherman or a pair of needlenosed pliers might be of help in this as you should get the knot rather tight.

You then pull the magazine floorplate back, put the paracord magpull in place as shown in the photos, and slide the magazine floorplate back into place with the magpull sticking out each side of the floorplate.

http://members.cox.net/mrostov/gear/magpulls/1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mrostov/gear/magpulls/2.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mrostov/gear/magpulls/3.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mrostov/gear/magpulls/4.jpg
http://members.cox.net/mrostov/gear/magpulls/5.jpg

[Kent]

Mrostov, how do you come up with this stuff?
I already bought magpulls and will probably trash them now.

I also engourage you to combine some of this knowledge into a book. I would pay you for this kind of info. But thanks for providing it for free too.

[RIKA]

Thanks Mike! You saved me some money.

RIKA :)

[tuna]

I've used a similar, but uglier (much uglier) version. Instead of pulling the cores out and putting the paracord shell under the floorplate, I just held it on with a couple wraps of duct tape. The knots in the cord would hold it in, and you've got tape on hand if you need a small piece or two. I like your idea better though, looks much cleaner and is probably a lot stronger, too. Always willing to steal someone else's idea when it is of value. Thanks for the info.

[John in AR]

Thanks. I'll probably use it.

[Coyote]

Dude, you have a gift here. Anyone can improvise but your jobs look professional.

Off to play with my various magazines...

[Garand]

All my mags already have magpuls and they work really well in competition, but thanks for sharing the technique.

[andy]

to not PUT your mags in a pouch that's too tight? With proper tactics, you will never survive having to do a fast reload with a 30 rd mag anyway. Man, that's either WAY too much MISSING, or you've got WAY too many enemies for anything but LUCK to get you clear of them. It's REALLY unusual to hit more than 5 guys who have autorifles. The days of spearchuckers attacking you are long gone, you know. Just how many times do you think you can MISS and still win by "skill", hmm? 5 hits with 30 rds is just 16% effective. That's WAY under the 50% hit-miss ratio that is LUCK, just like a heads or tails coin toss is LUCK. 15 HITS with 28 shots would be a LOT of dead men for ONE riflemen to have notched up, in any one engagement.

If you stick to thick cover or darkness, it will be quite rare for you to have any real USE for more than 15 rds in any one engagement. In fact, well over 90 % of your "fighting" better be silenced ambushes, from cover, either with a couple of excellent escape routes or being near dusk. If this is not the case, you will be lucky to survive the first week of shtf. Guys who PLAN on having to fire 40+ rds per engagement are simply fools. You won't have any help, so you MUST avoid trouble, period. A great many of those ambushes had better be "handleable" by the .22 unit, or you are screwing up so badly that no gun or amount of ammo are likely to save you.

If you know what you are doing, the first 2 seconds of an ambush can see your bullets in 5 men, at close range. That's enough right there to RUIN a dozen man looting party, posse, etc. They will know damned well that you are quite capable of doing it AGAIN (especially if you have a silencer) and THEN how many of them will be left, hmm? How many want a week of agony, .22 in them, before the fever and infection kill them, or their looter buddies finish them off?

[Garand]

You have never been in the field, have you? Be honest for a change! Its at the minimum obvious, that you have never been on any sort of fighting patrol when you were in the army.

[krept]

awesome tip! THANKS

[Magnum88C]

why not just be smart enough to not PUT your mags in a pouch that's too tight?
Because mag pulls are STILL faster even in a properly fitting pouch.
Leave it to GK to advocate being SLOWER than need be. LOL, he just says the opposite of what we do.

{quote]With proper tactics, you will never survive having to do a fast reload with a 30 rd mag anyway. [/quote]
1.) you don't have proper tactics
2.) you can't predict what kind of situation you'll be in
3.) it doesn't matter to you, because you don't have any weapons, and if you did, you won't carry enough ammo because you think it weighs too much.

If you stick to thick cover or darkness, it will be quite rare for you to have any real USE for more than 15 rds in any one engagement. In fact, well over 90 % of your "fighting" better be silenced ambushes, from cover, either with a couple of excellent escape routes or being near dusk. If this is not the case, you will be lucky to survive the first week of shtf. Guys who PLAN on having to fire 40+ rds per engagement are simply fools. You won't have any help, so you MUST avoid trouble, period.
This line of thinking WILL get you killed quickly, be sure of that
The fool is the one who thinks he doesn't need ammo, so doesn't carry much.

A great many of those ambushes had better be "handleable" by the .22 unit, or you are screwing up so badly that no gun or amount of ammo are likely to save you.
Anyone going into battle with their fighting rifle crippled into being a rimfire is going to die.

If you know what you are doing, the first 2 seconds of an ambush can see your bullets in 5 men, at close range. That's enough right there to RUIN a dozen man looting party, posse, etc.
1.) not everyone is a coward that surrendered to meter maids and phone calls in their pre-SHTF life
2.) if you had any knowledge at all about how near ambushes are reacted to, you'd realize why this is an unsafe procedure for one man to attempt, why you DON'T want to use a rimfire to do it, and why you're most likely dead if you try it.

[John in AR]

Mike - Thanks for the tip. I did a dozen or so last night while watching tv with the kids.

...With proper tactics, you will never survive having to do a fast reload with a 30 rd mag anyway. Man, that's either WAY too much MISSING, or you've got WAY too many enemies for anything but LUCK to get you clear of them. It's REALLY unusual to hit more than 5 guys who have autorifles. The days of spearchuckers attacking you are long gone, you know. Just how many times do you think you can MISS and still win by "skill", hmm? 5 hits with 30 rds is just 16% effective. That's WAY under the 50% hit-miss ratio that is LUCK, just like a heads or tails coin toss is LUCK.

Once again, a re-post (cut & paste) of my limited personal experience. Whether or not it "should" be true or not, the fact is that it IS something that's been actually experienced, not something that "seems reasonable" or "should be".

I sometimes volunteer at a facility that trains military, police, and govt special teams. “Direct Action Resource Center”, at www.darc1.com .

...I’m not an “operator”, and I’m not even an employee. It’s just near me, and when they do “scenarios” (hostage situations, “terrorist-reduction” training [as they call it], whatever), they often need “bad guys” to run against the guys in training. That’s what I volunteer for, to be one of the bad guys.

...It’s also re-enforced the carrying of a substantial quantity of ammo. I’ve always done that anyway, since “it didn’t cost anything”; so basically ‘why not?’ was my thought on it. But after going thru run after run of the closest thing to the “real thing”, the “extra ammo” concept has been driven home HARD. For years I thought I was carrying more ammo than realistic to need, but after actually going “force on force” with guys who do it for a living, I now carry even more. While there have been times I’ve been killed before using half a magazine, there have been more times that I’ve used over a hundred rounds in the rifle and two or three pistol magazines and still survived the engagement. There have been multiple times the ONLY thing that kept me “alive” was volume of fire. While we can pontificate that ‘suppressive fire’ is “wasteful” or “missing a lot”, it’s a historical fact that I’ve personally experienced; and for me to ignore that personal experience would be stupid. Basically, what I’ve learned is that having a lot of ammo won’t necessarily keep me alive, but NOT having a lot of ammo can absolutely get me dead.

(Edited; it was about twice that long originally.)


That last paragraph sums it up. Absolutely there have been times where I never had a chance to use anything beyond my first magazine. And also absolutely there have been times that I've stayed alive ONLY by virtue of the large quantity of ammo I had on tap at that moment. Don't know why that's so emotionally-opposed by some or treated like blasphemy.

There's no Commandment that says, "Thou shalt not carry more ammo than will fit in a coffee cup".

[andy]

Yeah, IF you MISS with 90+% of your shots. However, the civilian is not going to have the luxury of such a thing, so just forget it. The guys in nuke sites feel OBLIGED to find and stop EACH terrorist. Not anything LIKE reality for the civilian.

[andy]

You either have cover, or you don't. If you dont, you'd better FIND some, or only luck is going to save you. You aint GOT buddies to help, so it's all on YOU. So all you need to do, or all you CAN do, is either ambush a few, up close, real fast, snipe one at longer ranges, or just fire as needed to prevent your cover being outflanked. That being the case, very few rds are needed per engagement, or only LUCK will save you. Missing a lot means NOTHING when no buddies are helping you outflank the enemy.

[RIKA]

Why am I thinking of 60yd sniping with a bipod and 25yd ambushes. Even Mack Bolan doesn't do that; he likes BARs and light mortars. I suggest that you Google for ambush/counterambush so you can get up to speed with the rest of us.

RIKA

[John in AR]

I wasn’t often ‘outflanking’, I’m more often trying to break away; which is a perfectly valid tactic. “Running away?” U-dam-betcha. A “live to fight another day” sort of thing.

When it’s ‘give up ground’ or ‘give up life’, it pays to accept that real estate can be re-taken later if necessary. If you die and lose the ground anyway, you’ve gained nothing.

You can say “it can’t happen” all day. The fact is that it has happened to me personally; more than once. I’m no Rambo, no Mack Bolan, and not even Dirty Harry. But in the last sixteen months, I’ve been in force-on-force ‘gunfights’ with units from the U.S. army and air force, the National Nuclear Security Agency (by far the scariest group I’ve ever encountered), state police departments from two different states, and even GSG-9. Those agencies spend thousands of dollars per man for training at that facility, so I assume it has some value. It would be quite stupid of me to ignore my experiences at that facility.

Which agencies have you faced over a gun barrel in the last couple years, that reinforces your “it can’t happen” belief?

[Aslan]

Andy, there are many reasons for using a magpul. Obviously they are all lost on you. Instead of taking the gift of the information, you had to try and belittle it. That must really suck to carry all that anger and pain around with you all the time.

This one thread is more immediately useful and useable than 1000 of your typical posts. There's more practical information in this thread than your entire website. That's a fact.

Having said that, I suspect that if you tried to put away the chip, and leave your ego out of it, you probably could put some useful stuff up on your site.

Until then, why not just soak up the free info and stop trying to belittle anything that wasn't your idea, or that steals your thunder. (hint: you have no thunder)

:devil:

[Aslan]

It will take more than a few rounds to prevent your position from being flanked. You have never done a break contact drill.

BTW John in AR, I've had the misfortune, er pleasure to be killed many times by the NNSA guys. I agree, they are some very serious operators. (I'm not an operator and I freely admit it. I'm just good at volunteering - great way to learn things.)

Andy, it may take several hundred rounds just so you can run away. If you're in a fixed position and you think a few rounds will stop anybody that: a) is determined b) well armed c) trained, or d) all of the above, you will be dead before you even comprehend what took place.

So quit with the BS no experience bravado. You might actually learn a thing or two if you shut up and listen for a change.

:devil:

[John in AR]

...I've had the misfortune, er pleasure to be killed many times by the NNSA guys. I agree, they are some very serious operators. (I'm not an operator and I freely admit it. I'm just good at volunteering - great way to learn things.)


Seriously. Where I am, here in rural Arkansas, it's real easy to gradually slip into a “Billy Bad Ass” mindset; thinking you’re the toughest thing on the street.

The first time I walked into a room full of those guys (2 teams, 12 guys iirc), there was no question who was the badass, and it wasn’t me. I was bigger than all of them, and can probably bench more than most of them, but I repeatedly got killed by them.

I’ve got the advantage of being more familiar with the facility, and still I have never, repeat NEVER survived an engagement with them. I don’t know where they recruit from, but Godallmighty, those are some scary, scary people.

[John in AR]

Ok, I’m a little bored, so I’ll parse this one, bearing in mind that afaik, all we’re debating is whether to carry more ammo or less ammo…


You either have cover, or you don't. If you dont, you'd better FIND some, or only luck is going to save you.

Cover is important and can be even life-saving, but it’s not a permanent solution, especially if you’re outnumbered. Every time I’ve tried to stand my ground in good cover, I’ve been over-run; every time. Admittedly, in a one-on-one fight, that wouldn’t necessarily be the case; I’ve always been outnumbered. And I’ve always lost when I’ve tried it.


You aint GOT buddies to help, so it's all on YOU.

This actually strikes me as a very good reason to have more ammo, not less…


So all you need to do, or all you CAN do, is either ambush a few, up close, real fast, snipe one at longer ranges, or just fire as needed to prevent your cover being outflanked.

That’s not “all I can do”. I can also run like a stung monkey.

And firing to keep their heads down as I do so helps. If the goal is to “take the enemy’s territory” as in a military situation, that’s not always an option. But as you often say, we “aint in the military”. My goal in a shtf situation (especially if I were the backpack-bound type you say we all will be) wouldn’t be to “take over” someone else’s retreat, my goal is to keep my butt alive. And a shoot-&-scoot get-away can help immensely with that. It HAS helped me immensely with that more than once.

I don’t think it’s ever occurred to me until just now, but it seems like you don’t allow for any amount of “playing defense”. Sniping, ambushing, etc, are all based on being in the offensive mode; but being an imperfect, unpredictable world, you can easily be thrust unwillingly into the mode of playing defense.

Think about it. If you’re the “retreat” type survivalist (farm, livestock, static position), and you’re facing a lone backpacker/survivalist, who is trying to just get AWAY from you, and off your land, are you more likely to just let him do so, or are you going to suddenly get really carnivorous and go out of your way to hunt him down & kill him? Now, if that backpacker is more aggressive and attacking, you’re definitely going to try to kill him.

Playing defense is sometimes appropriate.


Missing a lot means NOTHING when no buddies are helping you outflank the enemy.

This is a big issue I have with your analysis. You use the term 'survivalist', yet the actions you describe are those of an 'invader' or 'conqueror'. They are very different things.

You (correctly, IMO) are quick to point out that we’re not the military, and won’t have military-type support, etc. You also point out that a man alone doesn’t have the military’s options (flanking the enemy, etc). I agree with this, and it’s what takes us back to my whole point. If I have:

- no teammates
- no air support I can call on
- no re-supply bringing me materiel
- no outside support of any kind

Then I better have everything I need. And personal experience has demonstrated to me that I very well may need a fair amount of ammo.

The 84 rounds you often mention, you say is enough to last a lifetime, or I’ll be dead anyway. I look at it this way: that 84 rounds weighs approximately two pounds or so, so for only an additional eight pounds or so of weight, I can carry five TIMES that much ammo. Eighty pounds? Ok, not a viable option, but EIGHT pounds...?

Eight pounds won’t kill me, but the extra 300+ rounds of ammo might keep me alive. Why not do it?

[Wylycoyte]

Seriously. Where I am, here in rural Arkansas, it's real easy to gradually slip into a “Billy Bad Ass” mindset; thinking you’re the toughest thing on the street.

The first time I walked into a room full of those guys (2 teams, 12 guys iirc), there was no question who was the badass, and it wasn’t me. I was bigger than all of them, and can probably bench more than most of them, but I repeatedly got killed by them.

I’ve got the advantage of being more familiar with the facility, and still I have never, repeat NEVER survived an engagement with them. I don’t know where they recruit from, but Godallmighty, those are some scary, scary people.


Based on your experience, what is "the difference that makes all the difference" with them? Is it just that they have recruited the people with the fastest mental processing speed they could find and then drilled and drilled and drilled both singular and team tactics?

[Kent]

John, could you beat these people 1 on 1? 2 on 1?

How much does being outnumbered figure into it?

[BigEd63]

I don’t know where they recruit from, but Godallmighty, those are some scary, scary people.

Mainly SOCOM and a few of the specialized security units I'd bet. :dgrin:

[John in AR]

Based on your experience, what is "the difference that makes all the difference" with them? Is it just that they have recruited the people with the fastest mental processing speed they could find and then drilled and drilled and drilled both singular and team tactics?

They're smart, no question of that. None of the big, dumb trigger-pullers you see on tv. They also have very good equipment.

The biggest thing (IMO) is training and 'will' or focus. They train so much with each other that they trust each other and know what the other guy's going to do as soon as he knows it himself. I've watched them in live-fire building searches (watching from a catwalk above) where they're using live ammo, and they trust their teammates to the point that they watch only their own muzzle, not their buddies'; they just trust the other guy not to shoot them. That gives them (as a unit) speed and focus. They've done it so much and so often, they're not a half-dozen guys with guns, they're one monster with six heads.

It reminds me of a story I read in either “The Richest Man in Babylon” or “The Greatest Salesman in the World”; the story of a young man who wanted to learn the jewel trade. He gets the rich old jewel merchant/trader to agree to teach him, and the trader tells the young man to come see him in the morning. The next morning, the trader gives the young man a ruby, telling him to hold it in his hand all day while the trader talks. The trader rambles all day about politics, rivers, everything except rubies. The young man splits his attention between the old trader, and the ruby in his hand, often wondering, "when is this man going to teach me about jewels?" At the end of the day, the merchant asks for the ruby back and sends the young man on his way, telling him to come back tomorrow.

Second day, same thing. The jewel merchant hands him a ruby and talks all day about everything but rubies. Then takes the ruby back & sends him home. Third day, same thing again.

Morning of the fourth day, same thing, except this day the young man looks at the red stone the old trader had placed in his hand and says, “This isn’t a ruby.”

The merchant smiles. The young man had learned.


While book learning and analysis are both priceless, nothing teaches better than hands-on experience.



John, could you beat these people 1 on 1? 2 on 1?

How much does being outnumbered figure into it?


I honestly don't know; I've never faced them one-on-one. It's always "them" and "us", but the "us" are generally scattered individually so we're operating as individuals more than a group.

While I say, "I don't know", I honestly don't believe I could. They're just that good. It may well be partially a conditioning thing, the fact that I don't expect to beat them anymore; I just do what I can to try & make it longer before they do 'get' me. Realize these aren't the same six guys over and over so they've got a chance to learn & predict us, it's 'some' six guys who are just all from the same agency. They're all that good that I've seen.

Goes back to the training issue. They're so in-sync with each other that you're not fighting six enemies, you're fighting a six-headed enemy.

Take one or even two of them out if they were caught off guard, sure, that could happen to anyone. But I've never seen these guys 'off-guard' yet.

[Magnum88C]

John, do they ever do any training where the OPFOR (you) are also a unit? Granted you won't be as good as they are (you don't get paid to train day-in, day-out like they do, so it stands to figure). But it might be interesting to se what they do against one, two or more GROUPS working together (that IS a possiblility in their job).

[RIKA]

Hey wassa, isn't andy/223 fan banned. Is that why you've snuck back under another name.

RIKA

[Kent]

You caught it too, Rika. Hello JD! Wassup?

[John in AR]

You know, even my ten-year-old son isn't this unwilling to consider things just because they aren't his own assumptions.


They get to play on their home turf constantly, a few thousand square feet of space, right?
If you'd read the entire thread, you'd know that they come in for training. The facility is in my area; I'm the one more familiar with it.

Example 1, from as recent as three posts ago:
"...Realize these aren't the same six guys over and over so they've got a chance to learn & predict us, it's 'some' six guys who are just all from the same agency.

I cut-&-pasted that slowly for you. Do try to keep up.



If you wonder why you always get beat, you don't know much about prepared ambush sites, forced pathways, and such things.
I never said I wonder why. I know why; they're better than I am. Just as I'm better at doing my job, they're better at doing theirs. When you reach adulthood, you'll also be able to make similar admissions. (One can only hope.)



It's very different out in the woods, especially if you know the area intmately, have spiderholes, caches, and such, and they don't. If they stick together, they can't cover much area, and they make have a lot more noise and movement to alert a defender that they are coming. If they separate, a guy with subsonic ammo and a suppressed rifle can clean the clocks of one group, without the other group knowing about it.
Translation: "If you are familiar with the area, and have holes dug in the ground, then the skill level, gear, and support level of your opponent are irrelevant." That's an absolutely accurate re-wording of the same statment, and a more concise way of making the same statement.

Shame it only makes it more concise, and not any less stupid.

Andy (where did "Andy" come from anyway, it's not your first, middle, or last name...), I was carrying AND shooting my suppressed CAR-15 in the woods just last weekend. Two CAR-15's, actually; my son was with me, using my 'spare'.

How long has it been since you did even as much as that 14-year-old Arkansas kid did just this past weekend, much less do any actual training where people are actually hunting you...?

Mr. "BulgingDisc, Admit-I-Don't-Do-Anything-Where-I-Might-Twist-An-Ankle, Can'tLearnAnything, Can'tBeCivil, yet So-Brilliant-That-If-I-Change-My-Name NobodyWillRecognizeMe" has spoken.

All hail. :rolleyes:

[Coyote]

(*******) PRETEND that most people you meet wouldnt shoot you dead if shtf, just for the uniform you are wearing.
I'm running out of names for you...(***...)

[Magnum88C]

Last edited by krept : 06-07-2005 at 01:55 AM. Reason: berichteter Posten

:laugh01::roflmao1::laugh01:

Looks like the routine editing of a certain troll's posts is getting boring!
Good one Krept.

[John in AR]

(*******) PRETEND that most people you meet wouldnt shoot you dead if shtf, just for the uniform you are wearing.

Which uniform is that, and why would anyone be wearing a uniform in MadMax times?

Unless he was insecure and trying to show his importance in the chain of command of the Louisiana Warlord's organization.

[Kent]

Which uniform is that, and why would anyone be wearing a uniform in MadMax times?

Unless he was insecure and trying to show his importance in the chain of command of the Louisiana Warlord's organization.

JD in all his glory
http://home.earthlink.net/~kdb71864/CURLY2.JPG

[BigEd63]

JD in all his glory
http://home.earthlink.net/~kdb71864/CURLY2.JPG


LMAO........ :laugh01:

[41mag]

Well,this was a thread w/some good info.

& John in AR?How much adrenaline do you think you use /engagement?Gallon?WOW!

[krept]

yeah there is good info in here and i'd open up a RR thread and split it but I don't know where to begin... jeeez LOL

[Kent]

Well, law of entropy and all.

Leave your sense of humor at the door. 41 and krept dont approve. :rolleyes:

All you have to do is put me on ignore.

[41mag]

Well, law of entropy and all.

Leave your sense of humor at the door. 41


I'm just wondering,after Richs proclomation last week(?) about multiple user names why JD is posting his eau de toilette?

I do think that it's a bit funny though.The same,lame BS excuses shot down again.

[krept]

I think the nick wassa and all the posts are now all gone. Moderators can't do that, only the Admin.

Kent, I didn't mean that post as a slight to you at all man. It would be a lot easier to just delete the posts that weren't about the mag pulls as derogatory if it was even close to that. Moving them to the rubber room where we could all bask in the roast would be a lot better but I always screwed up the split/merge thread deal... so... we are left with a thread that is mostly intact and the overt insults ***'d. ;)

My only (only) point is that this is one of those "I shoulda thought about that" ideas and I'd like to reference it on other forums in the future. Kick ass...

e

[John in AR]

John in AR?How much adrenaline do you think you use /engagement?Gallon?WOW!

Somewhere between a ton & a buttload. :)

Even though you ‘know’ it’s just simunition they’ll be shooting at you, the sounds of a half-dozen guys clearing a building with live flash-bangs from room to room looking for you, gets your blood up. Mine anyway.