Traditional or Inline and why

[tuna]

Do you shoot a traditional or an inline (I know, inlines have TECHNICALLY been around since percussion caps, but you know what I mean)? What made you make that choice?

I shoot traditional, mainly because I was able to pick one up for $60 with a synthetic stock and spent another $40 for a wooden stock, giving me a nice "personalized" firearm for $100. I guess I'm saying that I'm cheap.
Seriously, if I could have gotten an inline decently, I may have done that, but I always wanted a traditional style. Now that I know that they are fun and inexpensive to shoot (did I mention I'm cheap?), I want to start expanding my collection for other game besides deer.

Besides being cheap, I just like the look and feel of hunting with something that doesn't rely too much on modern conviences (scope, shotgun primer, enclosed action, etc) and takes some of the "shopping" out of "hunting". Somehow, the in line just doesn't appeal to me, even though they are good firearms. Kind of the same reason that usually my 1911 sits in the safe and the S&W mod 15 rides my hip.

Just wondering how everyone else feels.

[RIKA]

I choose to hunt and shoot the traditional Lyman Hawken because its the kind of rifle my forefathers used and I feel closer to and like I'm honoring them. Goofy huh?

RIKA

[Magnum88C]

I shoot traditional.
Part of it is for the same reasons RIKA does.
The other part is because it's harder. There's more challenge in target shooting with then than some scoped abomination of a frontstuffer, and also hunting. I figure the whole reason behind a muzzleloading season is because they are traditionally harder to hunt with than centerfires. Gussying up some synthetic stocked bolt-action mizzleloader with a scope and all that takes the sport out of it, as does shooting the lightest saboted bullet you can find over the heaviest BP substitute to try and make a centerfire out of it.

IMO, if you need to make your frontstuffer as close to a centerfire as possible to be able to use it, then wait a couple of weeks for general gun season. I guess it just irks me when people do everything they can to get around the rules. It's just greed and laziness. greed because you don't NEED that meat to live (if you did, you'd take it any way you had to, rules be damned), and lazy because you don't have the gumption to do it the right way (flame on). Not to mention you're screwing yourself out of a lot of the fun of it.

[neolithic hunter]

traditional or inline. well it occurs to me that if you shoot an inline your just streching the centerfire season. traditional style BP guns put you on the same footing as our for fathers. it requires more hunting skill to get close to the game to use it. i have a lot of scoped rifles, but i have found over the years, that the times that i used a rifle with only irons on it, i had a hunt that was alot more fun. but with age the old eyes start to go a little bit and i wonder if there will ever be a time when i can't use iron sights anymore. but an inline muzzle loader is defeating the purpose of having a black powder season. put a scope on it with saboted pistol slugs and what do you have. you have a blackpowder centerfire rifle that will take game at almost the same ranges that the average, or above average hunter will take game with a smokeless centerfire gun. using the inline just spoils the adventure of using BP in an age when people are in too big of a hurry anyway. oh well to each his own. the inline shooters can hurry up with there hunt and get out of the field, it just leaves more space in the woods for me. :cool:

now ya'll got me thinking about going BP hunting again, the wife will love this another 3 weeks of hunting for me. i guess i need to take the old smoker down and see if i can still hit the burm with it. :headbang: :cool:

[tuna]

OK, it seems I'm not alone in my preferance for traditional style black powder.
This also got me thinking about all the other "must have gear". In a couple weeks, my email and mailboxes are going to start getting swamped again with all the catalogs and deals on the latest and greatest hunting equipment. I've got boxes of hunting clothes and equipment that was the latest rage at the time I made the purchase. When the season rolls around however, I find myself wearing my standard bird vest until the weather gets too cold. Once the temp drops way off I find myself going back to the old standard of wool pants and jacket, and non insulated "bean boots" with heavy wool socks. Why do we keep trying to change the stuff that works? Instead of getting the scent proof chewing gum and all the other stinky stuff to "hide" my scent, I more often rely on a piece of string tied to the muzzle to tell me which way the wind is blowing. Instead of one of my new knives, an old Western with a 4 inch blade and a multitool and good folder are my choices.
This year I think I'm going to save some bucks and just use what has worked for decades instead of trying to get the new crap. The money saved will be better spent on ammo at the range, and it's more fun to shoot than to shop anyway.

[RIKA]

Its very strange that you post this, Tuna. Contrary to the stereotype of women, I'm most comfortable in a pair of old jeans and an old shirt; In fact I dress this way most of the time. I have nice pretty clothes too but they're reserved for business and special occasions. My hunting clothes are the same, old jeans and shirt along with boots and floppy hat. I add a military field jacket and sweater when it gets cold. The latest fads in guns and calibers leave me cold. The last hunting gadget I bought several years ago was a Trailtimer and I was disappointed in its performance. Guess my greatest weakness is knives. I kind of have a collection, both high quality and cheap. I have the most fun finding and buying cheap hunting knives, usually made in Tiawan and China. Surprisingly, most have been of good quality and with good steel that takes and holds an edge. I can't get down on folks who want to buy all the latest gadgets and can afford it but it really doesn't take an awful lot to have an effective hunt and to enjoy it thoroughly.

Just my thoughts

RIKA

[Magnum88C]

Yeah, I don't even look at the clothes sections of the outfitter catalogs anymore. I never bought the stuff. Heck, my boots, jeans, shirt and cowboy hat have worked for years (OK, decades), so why change? Besides, in deer season, we have to wear a minimum amount of blaze orange. Kinda makes several hundred dollars of camo a moot point, eh? It neve gets cold enough for wool or longjohns here, but if it gets cool, I'll wear a jean jacket, or if it gets cold, my duster (that matches my hat) goes along.

As for gun fads, I think the newest caliber I own is .308 and I rarely hunt with it. Most often I grab a .45-70. For BP season it's my Lyman GPH (Note to Razorback: get the Great Plains Rifle, the one with the 1-in-60 twist and shoot balls. Contrary to what people who don't know muzzleloaders tell you, balls kill well. Like anything else, it matters more where you hit the animal than what you hit it with.). Heck, I'm even drooling over flintlocks now (seems as I get older, so do my tastes, and I STARTED my rifle hunting with a .45-70. . .).

Besides, it's more fun (and interesting, not to mention skill-building) to get within 50 yards of your quarry than sniping from 400.

[bull420]

i shoot traditonal because i like thay look and i figure if thay were good enough for the mountain men then thay are good enough for me. it is nice to knoy that i am not the only one who likes to shoot like this.

[Flinter]

You're not the only one by a long shot Bull420. I've been hunting with traditional black powder rifles for 21 years now.

[hipster]

Interesting thread I have been toying with the idea of geting into muzzle loaders for hunting. This would allow me some better seasons with fewer hunters plus more of a hunt than with centerfire. I can't say either way what I might end up with but it will not have a scope and will be a less than 100 yard shooter any suggestions from any experience smoke pole shooters would be welcome for sure.

[RIKA]

Do you want to build your smokepole or buy one? If build, Dixie Gun Works, Thompson Center and Lyman offer excellent kits. The above three also offer complete made up guns of the same model. I have a (not a kit) 50 cal Lyman Hawken that is an excellent shooter and I expect to hunt with it this fall. There are scores of custom builders too. It all depends on how far you want to get into Black Powder and how much you want to spend. Its a great sport and I truly enjoy it.

RIKA

[T. Daves]

Traditional, because that's what my dad bought me 25 yrs ago, and it's worked fine ever since.

[hipster]

Do you want to build your smokepole or buy one? If build, Dixie Gun Works, Thompson Center and Lyman offer excellent kits. The above three also offer complete made up guns of the same model. I have a (not a kit) 50 cal Lyman Hawken that is an excellent shooter and I expect to hunt with it this fall. There are scores of custom builders too. It all depends on how far you want to get into Black Powder and how much you want to spend. Its a great sport and I truly enjoy it.

RIKA



Oops sorry for not replying life seems to get in the way all the time. I would not take the chance of building one myself. Even though I work a trade( some what unique trade) I am not mechanical enough to under take a home builder. I would buy one ready to go and start making clouds of smoke and nasty smell. This will probably not happen untill next year but it is good to be informed before hand.

[fffg100grns]

I will only do the "Traditional" thing,
100 grains of fffg and a 50 cal ball and my 1611av.

[Coyote]

I don't (yet) own any muzzleloaders but if I did have one it would be traditionally styled.

There are two reasons to own/shoot/hunt with a BP gun:

1. Its classy as hell
2. Its harder

Inlines are

2. Ugly and classless
3. As easy as a centerfire

I feel the same way, to a degree, about scoped/laser guided crossbows.

[Cornbread2]

The muzzleloading deer seasons in most states came to be because of the efforts of buckskinners and traditional muzzleloading rifle shooters. They spent their time and money to lobby the lawmakers to give them a season away from MODERN guns and MODERN hunters.

If you hunt in THEIR season with a modern inline rifle then you are taking a giant **** on these people. You are twisting the rules and the intent of the season to suit your agenda, which is to hunt where you are not supposed to be.

If you like modern guns then feel free to use them in the modern gun season and stay out of the woods during muzzleloading season.

[brass hammer]

gee-CORN-BREAD! [and every-body else, as i've just read all replys]I certainly can see your point of view,BUT!,,some of 'these'
guys hunt for meat,and,meat ONLY!, you know there are innumerable'stories'
about "the one that got away" wet charge/flash in the pan!

personally, I'd go with the 'in-line' pre-measured powder-pellets/209 primer/saboted pistol hollow-point bullets/SCOPE,,,THEN TURN THE GARDEN-HOSE LOOSE ON IT AFTER MY 'buckskinnin' CHORE was completed !

but that's just me, hell, I've killed more with a pistol than a rifle.[shuuu we'll keep that just between us,O.K.]


:wavey:

[Flinter]

[QUOTE=Cornbread2]If you hunt in THEIR season with a modern inline rifle then you are taking a giant **** on these people. You are twisting the rules and the intent of the season to suit your agenda, which is to hunt where you are not supposed to be.[QUOTE]

Amen.

Bowhunters are about to start realizing the same thing as more and more states allow crossbows. I'd almost feel bad for them if a lot of them werent' the same guys who use inlines in muzzleloader season.

[brass hammer]

look guys, I expressed a personal view based on the times 'in-field' I'VE
enjoyed and suffered :dgrin:

BUT,I CERTAINLY don't see the need to start draggin' bow-hunters[TRUE GLUTTONS FOR PUNISHMENT/DISAPPOINTMENT] INTO this civil discourse
of esteemed,learnerd indviduals!!!,,,!

:roflmao1: :wavey:

[Cornbread2]

gee-CORN-BREAD! [and every-body else, as i've just read all replys]I certainly can see your point of view,BUT!,,some of 'these'
guys hunt for meat,and,meat ONLY!, you know there are innumerable'stories'
about "the one that got away" wet charge/flash in the pan!


If one needs meat he can pop one behind the ear with a .22 any night he wants to.

I can go out tonight with my .22 and kill more deer than I can haul in my truck.

And if he needs meat and wants to hunt legally he still has the modern gun season to do so.

[Cornbread2]

Bowhunters are about to start realizing the same thing as more and more states allow crossbows. I'd almost feel bad for them if a lot of them werent' the same guys who use inlines in muzzleloader season.

I never gave that any thought before but I guess you are right.

A bow hunter has to spend a lot of time learning to master the bow. That keeps the lazy slob hunters out of the woods during bow season.

It is the same way with muzzleloaders. Those who do not wish to learn real shooting and hunting skills use modern guns in the muzzleloading season because they are too lazy or stupid to learn such skills.

[brass hammer]

I can go out tonight with my .22 and kill more deer than I can haul in my truck.

And if he needs meat and wants to hunt legally he still has the modern gun season to do so.


LUCKY-YOU!!!,,,but stop to THINK as to the WHY for more seasons/extended
huntin'

I'M THINKIN' THAT"I can go out tonight with my 'xyz' and kill more deer than I kin' haul in my FORD" SCREAMS VOLUMES as to the growing OVER-POPULATION of deer herds[east of me,anyway],,,and as to the WHY on the implementation of more 'modern' tools!

[I KIN' debate,with-you, my BROTHER :dgrin: ]

[Cornbread2]

Lets say that a group of Corvette owners got together and spent a lot of time and money to rent a piece of land to have a Corvette owners get together and cook out.

You come by in your Toyota Camry and since you can say your Toyota is also a car then you should be able to get into their cook out for free.


They are not going to see it that way. You don't own a Corvette. You did not pay your dues to the club. You just want to enjoy the benefits of the Corvette club without adding anything to the club.

You could even try to alter your Toyota so it looks like a Corvette so you can sneak in.

Either way you are cheating and you are not wanted in the Corvette club and you KNOW they are right.

So you can start your own Toyota club and your members can pay their dues and have your own damn cook out.

It is the same thing with the modern muzzleloader hunters. They can stay out of our season and they can lobby the law makers and get their own season.

[fffg100grns]

The second to the last year I hunted I was going up this hill when I heard shot fired, then another, and just as I got over the hill I watched him shoot a third time across a canyon at a buck. He was shooting the modern inline, a spendy one and the bullet dropped way short. I am not bragging only telling my opinion, I asked if he wanted me to take a shot, he laughed at my longer than normal Hawkin, I split the deer with him. I kept the rack. Its in my garage.
I will confess there was a little luck, not a lot.
I will also confess the day before I missed a shot as I a wet load.

[Cornbread2]

The fact of the matter is if you know how to shoot and know how to use a real muzzloader you can get your deer.

Or you can rely on technology to get your deer. Technology is fine for the modern gun season. It has no place in the muzzleloading season.

[BigEd63]

Yep, the whole real point of it has been lost.

[brass hammer]

Lets say that a group of Corvette owners got together and spent a lot of time and money to rent a piece of land to have a Corvette owners get together and cook out.

You come by in your Toyota Camry and since you can say your Toyota is also a car then you should be able to get into their cook out for free.


They are not going to see it that way. You don't own a Corvette. You did not pay your dues to the club. You just want to enjoy the benefits of the Corvette club without adding anything to the club.

You could even try to alter your Toyota so it looks like a Corvette so you can sneak in.

Either way you are cheating and you are not wanted in the Corvette club and you KNOW they are right.

So you can start your own Toyota club and your members can pay their dues and have your own damn cook out.

It is the same thing with the modern muzzleloader hunters. They can stay out of our season and they can lobby the law makers and get their own season.



dude/friend???,,,PLEASE, GIT' A ****IN'-LIFE!
BEFORE THE 'circle-of-life',,ROLLS PAST YER'-ASS.
:wavey:

[Cornbread2]

Brass hammer. I really believe you have a serious mental problem.

[T. Daves]

Traditional, because that's the way it should be. If I wanted to shoot a deer at 200 yards I'd use a center fire rifle.

[BigEd63]

I say if you want real primative you ought to jump onto the deer's back out of a tree. Grab it by the antlers and snap it's neck like a twig.

[brass hammer]

Brass hammer. I really believe you have a serious mental problem.


:roflmao1: it's funny that a few simple words in reply to a :fftopic: analogy
from a somewhat civil meaningful debate/discussion[i.e. 'your utter/complete deviation' ] could invoke your question concerning my mental stability!

:roflmao1: :roflmao1: although, 'your simple reply' sheds GREAT-LIGHT!!!,,,,!, upon your own 'mental-make-up' PAL!

[hold-on, I'LL PULL YOU BACK TO THE SHALLOW-END OF THE LAKE,[i.e.]
I AIN'T MAD AT YOU.]


:wavey:

[Cornbread2]

How was that an off topic analogy?

The buckskinners and traditional muzzle loader shooters spent their time and money getting the season for themselves away from hunters USING MODERN GUNS.

Or if you fail to understand the above I will type slowly so you can understand.

The people that got the season in place did not WANT YOU AND YOUR MODERN GUNS IN THEIR SEASON. That was the whole point of what they did.

The modern gun hunters saw the buck skinners had a separate season and they wanted to hunt also. That would be fine IF they used traditional guns. That is exactly what the season is about.

But many of these hunters are either too stupid or too damn lazy or both to learn to shoot a real muzzloader so they want to bring their modern guns into this season.

The analogy of the Corvette club fits exactly. But one has to have the mental capacity over that of a single cell organism to understand the analogy.

[Cornbread2]

Traditional, because that's the way it should be. If I wanted to shoot a deer at 200 yards I'd use a center fire rifle.

Muzzleloading hunting requires skills that modern gun hunting does not require.

It is not so hard to pop a deer at 300 yards with your new short magnum caliber rifle with a scope while sitting in nice warn truck.

[brass hammer]

look, "friend"![is this corn-pone #1, or #2,?],,,as the cars in your replys/are a stupid 'RETORT',,, why not try this [drizzily-concept]

fer'instance, ,,,'a half a dozen ol' 'bradford-white' #30 gal WATER-HEATERS
WERE SETTIN' AROUND 'suckin'-up THIER 'SOLE-GLORY' in the life of thier existance!!!,,, when ,,,all of a sudden,, this UP-START WHIPPER-SNAPPER!!!

by the name of "RINNANI", shows up with thier 'CONNTINUUM, MODEL#2020!
,,,TANKLESS GAS WATER-HEATER!!! :dgrin: SLAPS YOU IN THE [albeit]UGLY MUG

and I am not mad at you for being the person that you are![****-fer-brains]
in fact [stuipd ****-fer-brains that you and yer' conjoined retarded alter-ego is] i'd love nothing better than to MEET YOU IN THE WOODS DURING 'a' HUNT!
signed,
RESPECTFULLY, the MAN that can teach/train YER'-ASS,!
UNCLE-BRASS. :kill:

:wavey:

[T. Daves]

Cornbread, I don't believe you realise what I was trying to state. During muzzleloader season i use a traditional frontstuffer. Inlines are no different than centerfire rifles in that you can shot game out to 250 yds. As I stated earlier If I wanted to shot a deer at more than 75 yds. I would use my .243 or .308

[neolithic hunter]

i guess when big ed hunts primitive he means primitive.
t davies you appear to be an man of honor and i must agree with you, but i can hit a deer or something larger at 100 to 125 yrds with my front stuffer. people that use inlines are the same people that will use a crossbow during bow season just because thay can. oh and that way they don't have to learn how to hunt just shoot. :cool:

[RIKA]

Oh well. I stalk the animals in their own environment, and shoot them with a traditional cap and ball Hawken rifle. Its my choice and it works for me. Different strokes for different folks.

RIKA

[Gunners762]

http://www.museum.state.il.us/muslink/nat_amer/pre/images/dmm_p02_200.jpgReal men hunt in loin cloth...........With a Spear! Flint or percussion? You decide...

[BIGBORE]

It's been quite a few years since I last got out for the Muzzle-loading season, so I haven't paid any attention to whether or not the rules for ML season have changed since then in my state. However, when I last hunted the ML season, my state required traditional flintlock or percussion, ignition system completely exposed to the elements, and iron sights. And, this is the way it should be, IMO. I personally used a T/C Renegade .54 cal, which is a Hawken type design, with a 430gr maxi-ball, since we had deer, elk, and black bear open here. My only concession to the original system was a peep sight, as my eyes had gotten to old to see open sights on a rifle.
Personally, I think a scope sighted inline muzzle-loader is just fine for general deer or elk season, but it completely defeats the purpose of the special muzzle-loading season.
Best regards, BIGBORE

[brass hammer]

hey.gang/gaggle!,,,I'VE talked on the 'phone' with my 'little-brother'[i.e. 6'1"-250, +4lbs with a BONER! :nyah: ] and the feed-back is,,,[he works with the 'winkies'/AMISH FER' YOu P.C. TYPES],,,THEY ALL HUNT "SCOPED IN-LINE"
MUZZLE-LOADERS!!!{SLAM!!!!!!, ON thet 'traditional ****']


:cool:

[Cornbread2]

The Amish are idiots. Much like yourself.

[anodes]

The Amish are idiots. Much like yourself.

NOW I'll contribute to this thread!:)

I just got done watching Jim Shockey's Hunting Adventure on The Outdoor Channel, not really watching, but it was on. There is a segment called "The Big Ones" that is all archive footage from the old days, the one part of his show I will get up to watch.

In this segment, Howard Hill (who performed all the archery feats in 'Robin Hood', 1938 w/ Erroll Flynn) just got done shooting silver dollars and $0.50 pieces IN THE AIR with his long bow.

Now would that make anybody who uses a compound bow for thier hunts during bow season a CHEATER?

I mean ****! If your not mixing your own black powder, after making your own charcoal and digging your own sulfer, your CHEATING during muzzle loading season? God forbid you use a black powder subsititute like Goex! Much less pelletized, sulfer free, pre-wieghed charges from pyrodex! :rolleyes: Give me a break.

**** it! The Amish are IDIOTS. I'm convinced. End of story. :headbang:
anodes.

[brass hammer]

AH,-HA!,,for the true art of "RATIONALISM",, is being VOICED.


:dgrin:

[brass hammer]

The Amish are idiots. Much like yourself.


look pal! I'LL meet you an'yer' CONJOINED KEY-BOARD FRONT-STUFFER BROTHER,,,ANY ****IN DAY!,,[life is gotten rather mundane since I'VE STOPPED killin' folks.]
:wavey:

[Cornbread2]

We all know what the origional intent was when the blackpowder seasons were opened.

It was to give the buckskinners and traditional muzzleloader shooters a season to themselves.

It was basically designed to keep idiots like this brass hammer moron out of the woods while real men were hunting with real guns.

[anodes]

CB2, And we all know what the original intent of the archery season was. The point being that given time technology is advanced regardless of personal feeling and opinions. This of course includes all the technological advances made to bows and you don't HAVE to use a long bow like Howard Hill (though I wish I could!) Just because of the original intent of archery season.

As long as it isn't illegal it come down to just that, choice based on personal feeling and opinion.

It's my personal feeling and opinion thhat "the Amish" AREN"T idiots. But hey! That's just my personal opinion, based on my personal feelings. No real reason to understand it, much less respect it. Is there?

Same so for me putting on the new Nikon Omega BCD scope (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=755669) especially made for muzzle loading rifles, on a muzzle loader that I don't have... yet.

BUT IF I DID!!:) I'd ****ing scope that pig!

Now if you want to talk about scopeing a lever gun, I'd have to meet you after school in the green field! That would just be so UNtraditional it would be idiotic!

But that's just my personal feeling and opinion. You see my point?:)
anodes.

[Cornbread2]

CB2, And we all know what the original intent of the archery season was. The point being that given time technology is advanced regardless of personal feeling and opinions.

The advancement of technology is fine as long as it does not involve changing the intent and spirit of the sport.

I shoot a lot of CMP Garand matches. The rules say the rifles must be as issued condition. There can be no NM parts or mods. You can have new parts but they must be milspec and in the original form as the US parts.

No one is allowed to shoot that does not wish to follow the rules.

There are many match mods that can be done to the Garand to make it more accurate but if you use a match modified Garand in a Garand match you are cheating and you are not wanted.

The CMP makes the rules. It is THEIR match.

The buckskinners and traditional muzzleloading shooters started the seasons. It is THEIR season. If one wants to hunt in their season they should respect their intent and not show up with modern guns.

[anodes]

No one is allowed to shoot that does not wish to follow the rules.

The buckskinners and traditional muzzleloading shooters started the seasons. It is THEIR season. If one wants to hunt in their season they should respect their intent and not show up with modern guns.

CB2, I suppose your right, let me get out my copy of the '06 AZG&F Dept. Hunting Regulations pamphlet and I'll get back to you. YMMV, as I don't have copies of all 50 states regs. But I will check out the AZ rules and let you know. I am curious, where do you dig your sulfer at?
anodes.

[neolithic hunter]

CB2 i've also shoot a few CMP garand matches in my time. i relize that the rifles are not supposed to have any NM parts on them. well find me an op-rod thats not got a NM on it and i mite use it. i do relize that op-rods can be found without the NM on them but there scarce as hens teeth, good ones are not easy to find. i have yet to have a judge dunn me for a few NM parts on a rifle thats 50 plus yrs old. when you talk about a rifle having to have mil-spec parts, well then you had better get rid of any SA rifle that has been made in the past 15 yrs. the m-1 garands ain't mil-spec and the m-1a's are not even close either. so they over look certin parts of the rules in order to have competitors on the firing line. so much for my soap box will have to wash the footy prints off'n it now. :cool:

[anodes]

CB2, It's pretty cut and dried, at least in AZ:

R12-4-101
Definitions

14. A “muzzle loading handgun” means a firearm intended to be fired from the hand, incapable of firing fixed ammunition, having a single barrel and single chamber, and loaded though the muzzle with black powder or synthetic black powder and firing a single projectile

15. A “muzzle loading rifle” means a firearm intended to be fired from the shoulder, incapable of firing fixed ammunition, having a single barrel and single chamber, and loaded though the muzzle with black powder or synthetic black powder and firing a single projectile

R12-4-304
Lawful methods of taking wild mammals birds and reptiles

Antelope
A.1.b. Muzzle loading rifles

And it goes on like this for each species till turkey, which I add FYI the rimfire aspect

Turkey
C.9.b. Muzzle loading rifles
C.9.i. .22 Rimfire Magnum
C.9.j. 5mm Rimfire Magnum
C.9.k. .17 Rimfire Magnum

Seasons for lawfully taking wild mammals, birds and reptiles.
R12-4-318
C.1. An individual participating in a muzzle loader season shall not use or posses any other firearm than a muzzle loading rifles or muzzle loading handguns, as defined in R12-4-101.

Source: http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/documents/AZFallRegs06-07_001.pdf

Nothing at all about respecting people w/fuzzy hats. Respect that could be adapted for use w/the Amish? Luck w/that.
anodes.

[BIGBORE]

I was just reading an interesting thread on another board. It seems that last year Mississippi changed the rules for their "primitive weapons" (formerly "muzzleloading") season to allow single shot cartridge rifles. These rifles must have an external hammer, be of a type that existed before 1900, and be of .38 or larger caliber. For most people that boils down to 38/55, 44 Mag., or 45/70. Apparently NEF Handi-rifles and H&R Buffalo rifles in 45/70 are selling like hotcakes down there for use in this season. Any cartridge .38 caliber or over is legal whether old or new, and can be loaded with smokeless powder and a jacketed bullet. I'm not sure whether scopes are legal, but I assume they are. In other words, they are now using guns in the "primitive weapons" season that I would choose for the modern weapons general season. They were saying that muzzleloaders, both inline and traditional, are fast disappearing in Mississippi.
Best regards, BIGBORE

[tuna]

We all know what the origional intent was when the blackpowder seasons were opened.

It was to give the buckskinners and traditional muzzleloader shooters a season to themselves.


Thinking on it more, I think the original reason for the season was to be able to allow hunters to take out more deer to keep the population of antlered rats at a reasonable level while keeping the nancy-boys from peeing thier pants about people in the woods hunting.
Sheeple won't notice a BP hunter (modern or traditional) shooting at a deer since they will only hear one shot and not the volley that you hear durning regular season. This may also explain why NEF type rifles are now allowed, as the previous post said.
This also lets the state sell a "primitive firearms" stamp and collect more revenue. The hunters only pay a small fee for the stamp ($5.00 in MA) for being allowed to extend our seasons. Everyone wins.

Mass is trying to use this thinking to allow Sunday hunting. The thought is if we can get bow hunting allowed on Sunday, then we can follow with Black Powder, and maybe follow up with shotgun season (no rifle season here). It may work, but my beef is that this only helps out deer hunters, and us birders are left out in the cold.

[Cornbread2]

, well then you had better get rid of any SA rifle that has been made in the past 15 yrs.:

The SA Inc Garand is not legal in a Garand match because it is not a USGI Garand.

It is a commercial copy using a few GI parts with a cast reciever.

The last Springfield Armory Garand was made in the mid 50's and Springfield Armory closed it's doors in 1968 or '69 and they have not made ANYTHING since.

And the vast majority of Garand OP rods were not marked NM.

[Cornbread2]

Thinking on it more, I think the original reason for the season was to be able to allow hunters to take out more deer to keep the population of antlered rats at a reasonable level while keeping the nancy-boys from peeing thier pants about people in the woods hunting.



In most of the States these seasons were not the product of the fish and wildlife people. It was not their idea.

The buckskinners and traditional muzzleloading shooters spent their time and money getting these seasons in place.

It is THEIR season.

[anodes]

I don’t mind wearing animals, at least when their dead
But a funny, furry hat is not what I want on my head

I do not want to wear moccasins on my feet
I do not think it is really all that neat

A buckskin shirt and leather pants
Does not my hunting experience enhance

I won’t belt on a tomahawk
Though those who do, I will not mock

What I want in my freezer is meat
I just do not want a historic fashion show, in which to compete
If I do not wear what you say, then I guess I’m a cheat?

If you feel that you must, it seems more like a stunt
I just do not want to play dress up just for my hunt
If you insist that I do, then your being a bit of a… well… let’s just say nut

If the gun I choose hath no frizzen
That does not mean I should go to prison

Just because you play dress up, doesn’t mean it’s “YOUR SEASON”
I’ll dress how I want and shoot what I want, for what ever my DAMN REASON

In closing let me just say this
I’ll shoot what I want and try not to miss
In spite of your protest, complete with the hiss

Or perhaps because of it!

:)
anodes.

[Cornbread2]

If they ever open a deer season only for handicapped people there will be thousands of able bodied hunters buying wheelchairs.

[anodes]

AZ already has a handicap hunter's license that allows you to shoot from a vehical as long as the vehical is not in motion or the engine is running. You should check your state's regs.
anodes.

[brass hammer]

[QUOTE=Cornbread2]Lets say that a group of Corvette owners got together and spent a lot of time and money to rent a piece of land to have a Corvette owners get together and cook out.

You come by in your Toyota Camry and since you can say your Toyota is also a car then you should be able to get into their cook out for free.


They are not going to see it that way. You don't own a Corvette. You did not pay your dues to the club. You just want to enjoy the benefits of the Corvette club without adding anything to the club.

You could even try to alter your Toyota so it looks like a Corvette so you can sneak in.


LOOK, 'FISH-MILT'!!!,,, THE WOODS AIN'T YOURS.

now i 'kin' over-look the splay of yer' "secret-squirrel-hurl" of the term "IDIOT",,yes I can, as in YOUR ATTACK/ASSUALT,, IT DREW 'no' BLOOD FROM THE 'HIDE' OF AN "ironspine",,,in fact, 'turtle-bait'!!!,,,yer'a'goooonna' hav'ta,,,LEAVE THE 'shelters/confines of the KIDDIE-POOL, AND FLOUNDER INTO THE DROWNING DEPTHS OF 'deeper-waters' BEFORE "you" ATTEMPT TO
"FUZZ-UP" this ******S INDIAN-ASS! :dgrin:

[neolithic hunter]

brass you have a way with words.
now i'm not always sure what your talking about, but you do have a way with them there wordy things. :cool:

[brass hammer]

:roflmao1: thanks brother! now I admit to enjoying THIS BOARD/FORUM
TO IT'S CYLINDER-BORE-FULL-TILT-BOOGIE! ,,, although,,,I'LL not suffer 5th-grade foolish BULL-****\IN A ANALOGY while I thought we're engaged in a civil DISCOURSE[and there is a 'fine art' to talkin' smack/trash/****,,but to pull it into the light of a HIGH-LUSTER is just a fun/light thing in a MASTERS TRAINING] :dgrin:

[Cornbread2]

The "ANALOGY" was an attempt to get someone with **** for brains to understand a simple concept.

Apparently it did not work.

[brass hammer]

The "ANALOGY" was an attempt to get someone with **** for brains to understand a simple concept.

Apparently it did not work.

LISTEN 'FRIEND' 'a simple concept',,will get crushed under the wieght of 'a
simple logic' ANYDAY! [a loggerhead fer' you to ponder/study upon ]

now ,'YOU' showed up to the 'game' with your saddle-bags loaded plumb-full of emotion,,,and a HUGE-HEAD -O-EGO!!![PAL]

while,I merely took the other-end of the stick YOU were thrashing about !
and thumped you with it on a PRO/CON,,,,POINT/COUNTER-POINT SORT OF WAY!,,,,well, this will NOT SUFFICE IN THE LAND/WORLD of the "corn-poneII"

AND ,SO BE IT.

for I have grown weary of YOUR 12 YEAR-OLD ANTICS,ATTITUDE,SECRET-SQUIRREL-HURLS !!! and when YOU 'achieve manhood',,,,well-hell, there's
ALWAYS A "uncle-brass" to be thankful for!!![I.E. render tribute}

pal.


:roflmao1: :wavey:

[Cornbread2]

LISTEN 'FRIEND' 'a simple concept',,will get crushed under the wieght of 'a
simple logic

Simple logic tells me that since the muzzleloading seasons were started by buckskinners and traditional muzzleloader shooters because they wanted to have a season away from modern gun hunters then modern gun hunters should stay the hell out of THEIR season.

That is simple LOGIC.

[brass hammer]

Simple logic tells me that since the muzzleloading seasons were started by buckskinners and traditional muzzleloader shooters because they wanted to have a season away from modern gun hunters then modern gun hunters should stay the hell out of THEIR season.

That is simple LOGIC.


:roflmao1: :roflmao1: :roflmao1: ok.,ok.ok.!,,,as yer' "reverberations/reply"
on my posts 'screams-volumes ABOUT YOURSELF!,,,'you' WIN, 'sports-boy'!!!

:roflmao1: :roflmao1: :roflmao1: although!, the funniest part of this 'little fandango/dance',,is,,,,,I DON'T OWN A MUZZLE-LOADER/INTEND TO EVEN HUNT IN THAT SEASON MYSELF!!!,,,,{ :bounce: }


:wavey:

[Kpdpipes]

Simple logic tells me that since the muzzleloading seasons were started by buckskinners and traditional muzzleloader shooters because they wanted to have a season away from modern gun hunters then modern gun hunters should stay the hell out of THEIR season.

That is simple LOGIC.

Ther's an even simpler Logic...Hunt your way, and STFU and let everyone else hunt THEIRS...who the hell made YOU the Black-Powder Nazi anyway??? Considering there's a hell of a lot more deer out there than can be harvested either way, shut up, go hunting, and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. :madeuce:

[RIKA]

Crud. I vote for a 105mm howitzer season. :duck:

RIKA

[Gunners762]

http://www.monstersinmotion.com/catalog/images/tv/davidcrockett.jpg

[Cornbread2]

Considering there's a hell of a lot more deer out there than can be harvested either way, shut up, go hunting, and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. :madeuce:

That is hard to do since the woods is full of morons with inline rifles shooting at everything that moves.

Before you idiots came along the muzzleloading season was a nice time to hunt.

[fffg100grns]

I take no issue with any type of gun, but the one I can say I will never buy is an In-line muzzle loader.

[Flinter]

I take no issue with any type of gun, but the one I can say I will never buy is an In-line muzzle loader.
Me either.

I just don't see the attraction. Why would I want a muzzleloader that looks exactly like my Rem M700? If I did I'd just as soon take my Remington into the woods with me. Hell, I'll load it one round at a time and call myself a breechloader hunter. I'll even pat myself on the back for taking the handicap.

Some guys just want to hunt, but that's what all the other seasons are for. I don't know about other states but there are 3 weeks of regular rifle season in WV. Muzzy season is the very last one (week 4). If you can't kill a deer the first 3 weeks then what are the odds you'll get one in the 4th no matter what you are carrying?

If you really need a deer? Get your .22 mag and go feed the family. No one is going to hold it against you.

Both of the guys I hunt with have inlines. I make fun of them all the time.....and vice versa. My real beef with inlines is this;

Mr. Knight developed a product and markets it by trying to convince hunters that they need one to hunt effectively. It's pure marketing bull****. Gun magazines like them because it's big money in advertising. Gun companies like them because it's a new source of revenue. Hunters like them because it's a familiar platform.

150 grain charges? Big deal........I've knocked down every deer I've ever hit with a .54 caliber roundball and an 80 grain charge. Synthetic powder manufacturers prefer you load heavy though! ;)

200 yard shots? Well, out west that may be an advantage but here in the east it's just silly. I've yet to see a deer taken around here during musket season that was over 100 yards.

Surefire ignition? Learn your weapon. I had zero misfires from my flintlock this year. I remind my friends that as far as reliablity goes....we're running neck and neck.

Ability to scope? Friend, if you aren't near blind and you are scoping your muzzleloader thennothing I say about it is going to sway you. Go get that 30-30 and have at it.

I know a lot of the guys who pushed for a black powder season around here. Inlines weren't what they had in mind. Still, this is where we are today.

What burns my ass the most is that there is actually a movement afoot to ban traditional rifles from the field. I believe it was started in Montanna. The means to this? Minimum muzzle energy levels. It would take just about every traditional rifle out of the woods. Let's face it, 150 grains and a sabot bullet produce a lot more than half that charge and a roundball.

Another way to force the rest of us to buy into Mr. Knights product.

I told you fella's that he was a marketing genius.

Oh, btw.......the first inline was a flintlock. Just so you know.

[Gunners762]

I take no issue with any type of gun, but the one I can say I will never buy is an In-line muzzle loader.
Thats my thoughts too. Even though I do see cornbreads point......

[BigEd63]

Why not, where feasible have an all inclusive "primitive" hunting season? No inlines and no compound bows, only what I'd call "nekkid bows"(no sightpins or other new fangled devices) with the most modern bow types being recurve ones. No polymere stocks or bow limbs. And if it'a a cross bow it better look like something from the middle ages instead of Star Wars.

All this talk has got me thinking of once I get a few more moderm pieces I may go and get a few flint locks, like a couple of rifles and pistols.

Also since we got wild hogs around one of those Cold Steel Boar Spears would be fun.

[RIKA]

Also since we got wild hogs around one of those Cold Steel Boar Spears would be fun.

It takes big cajones to go after a boar with a spear. Handgun is close as I'd come to kill one of those critters.

For the BP guns I have a Lyman Hawken and a Ruger OM and an el cheapo .36 C&B. Great fun and reliable.

"Strong and free; no inline for me" :D

RIKA

[BigEd63]

It's gonna be fun trying though.

I'll have to get 2 of those one for practice and the other for the hunt.

[brass hammer]

[embargo,,,LIFTERD.]

I'll admit, this was a pretty fun thread/imput B.S. session

flinter posted some 'pics' on a couple of his 'flinch-locks' awhile back
and they are some real 'sweeties',,,the other a day I was 'rumingin' around in my powder stocks and counted 6 cans of B.P. and i've only got [2] .36 cap-n-ball revolvers,,,and that .44 revolving carbine that i've only shot [1] cylinder
through it since i've bought it.[I REALLY NEED TO DO MY PART IN THIS GLOBAL-WARMING 'trend' AND SHOOT MORE 'LOOSE-POWDER']

:roflmao1: :wavey:

[bob gathercole]

I started hunting with a traditional muzzleloader when my wife got me a kit years ago. i built it and found that it shot offhand really well- fine balance. i mounted a large ring peep as the rear sight. it has a wonderful set trigger.
wyoming has no separate muzzleloader elk seasons, but I enjoy using it anyway. I often hunt the close black timber and feel no disadvantage during gun season with it- I've killed three elk with it. I usually take elk with a bow, and the muzzleloader actually offers considerable advantage in range, and in that you don't need to move as much to shoot.
wyoming has some muzzleloading areas for antelope, and I've enjoyed this rifle there. again, I've taken antelope with a bow, so the challenge is similar.
I don't think I'd ever get an inline- I just wouldn't enjoy walking through the woods with it as much.

[brass hammer]

thanks. 'bob' for sharing this wonderful picture in my own 'minds-eye'
as I for one, am GLAD you decided to share with this forum.

:wavey: [p.s. and this will be/should be my last imput on this THREAD!
"I'D LOVE TO LAY MY HANDS UPON THE MUZZLE-LOADER THAT THE N.R.A. PRESENTED TO A "rush limbaugh" a FEW YEARS BACK!!!,,,just for 5 minutes.]

[Flinter]

"I'D LOVE TO LAY MY HANDS UPON THE MUZZLE-LOADER THAT THE N.R.A. PRESENTED TO A "rush limbaugh" a FEW YEARS BACK!!!,,,just for 5 minutes.]
Cecil Brooks made all the NRA guns. He was one hell of a gunbuilder.

Unfortunately, he died last year.

[brass hammer]

I'M SORRY TO HAVE LEARNED THAT SAD NEWS![I've rediscovered my complete "hard-bound" N.R.A. issues of 1971{the centennial issue is first/foremost},,,but back in the day the printed work/words were for a "CAN-DO" AMERICAN SHOOTER/black-powder HEAVY articles]

and so it seems,,, TIS' NOT THE LAST OF THE BRASS'S-ASS!!!,,,ON THIS THREAD! :dgrin:

[BigEd63]

Just today I was eyein' a TC Renegade at my fav shop that had been fitted with a .50cal Green Mt?(IIRC) barrel, barrel condition new.

Asking price I think was $150, to high? or a good deal? What say ye?

[Cornbread2]

Why not, where feasible have an all inclusive "primitive" hunting season? No inlines and no compound bows, only what I'd call "nekkid bows"(no sightpins or other new fangled devices) with the most modern bow types being recurve ones. No polymere stocks or bow limbs. And if it'a a cross bow it better look like something from the middle ages instead of Star Wars.

These idiots will still find a way to cheat just like they do now.

They refuse to try to learn real hunting and shooting skills and they are not going to start just because it is a primitive only season.

Before inlines were invented these people hunted in the muzzleloading season with their centerfire rifles and they took a traditional muzzleloader they have never fired in their lives with them to check in the deer.

I seen several of them buy muzzleloaders that would not even function to "hunt with"

They would buy an arrow to stick in the gun shot wound in archery season.

[brass hammer]

Just today I was eyein' a TC Renegade at my fav shop that had been fitted with a .50cal Green Mt?(IIRC) barrel, barrel condition new.

Asking price I think was $150, to high? or a good deal? What say ye?

was it plastic or wood stocked?[I can't remember the last time I've 'refreshed' my memories on b.p. rifles]

[brass hammer]

These idiots will still find a way to cheat just like they do now.

They refuse to try to learn real hunting and shooting skills and they are not going to start just because it is a primitive only season.

Before inlines were invented these people hunted in the muzzleloading season with their centerfire rifles and they took a traditional muzzleloader they have never fired in their lives with them to check in the deer.

I seen several of them buy muzzleloaders that would not even function to "hunt with"

They would buy an arrow to stick in the gun shot wound in archery season.



HEY,CORN-PONEX2!,,,when the marbles in your head finally quit spinin' around and roll-out yer' ass, do you rinse them off before RECYCLING?


:shrugs: :wavey:

[RIKA]

Ed, the $150 is probably okay. I've heard that Green Mountain makes good barrels.

RIKA

[Flinter]

Asking price I think was $150, to high? or a good deal? What say ye?
If it is a new Green Mountain barrel, the barrel alone is worth around 80 to 100 bucks. I can't remember exactly what they are selling for but it's in that range.

Green Mountain makes good barrels.

[Cornbread2]

HEY,CORN-PONEX2!,,,when the marbles in your head finally quit spinin' around and roll-out yer' ass, do you rinse them off before RECYCLING?


Have you always been an idiot or is this a recent event?

In Ky a few years ago when you killed a deer you were required to "check it in"

Country stores and gun shops did this service for the State. You taged your deer and brought it to the check in station and they weighed the deer and made a report on when and where it was killed.

Slob hunters that were too lazy or ignorant to use a muzzleloader hunted in the muzzleloading season with their centerfire rifle but when they went to check the deer in they brough along a muzzleloader just in case the game warden showed up at the check point.


Some of these same morons now use an inline.

[brass hammer]

Have you always been an idiot or is this a recent event?

In Ky a few years ago when you killed a deer you were required to "check it in"

Country stores and gun shops did this service for the State. You taged your deer and brought it to the check in station and they weighed the deer and made a report on when and where it was killed.

Slob hunters that were too lazy or ignorant to use a muzzleloader hunted in the muzzleloading season with their centerfire rifle but when they went to check the deer in they brough along a muzzleloader just in case the game warden showed up at the check point.


Some of these same morons now use an inline.

:laugh01: :roflmao1: :roflmao1: only when I READ 'corn-pone#2' postings!
and then "corn-pone#1' must-rush to the KEYBOARD OF salvation[i.e. rescue 'MY' boy] :laugh01:I'LL 'LET' YOU ****-kickin' kentuckians in on a not so little SECRECT!!!,,,I KIN' HARDLY WAIT fer' CORN-PONE #3!!![considering
c-p#1, came out over-cooked , and c-p#2 came out half-baked{THE BREAD-PUDDIN' IS EXTRA RUNNY TONITE,,,CLARK!},,,,HELL, HE OAUGHT TO BE 'JUST ABOUT RIGHT'! :roflmao1:


[I'M sorry 'iffin' you git' 'FUZZED-UP'!,,,as your too ****in' funny! and I'VE FOUGHT AND ****ED MY SHARE OF KENTUCKY 'wildcats' ] men I'VE fought/women I'VE ****ed] :wavey:

[Cornbread2]

Gunkid must still be with us.

[basketcase]

Ashame the thread got "jacked".
Love both but now shoot in-line. Shot traditional for 8 years in the Florida swamp. Went to in-line for simplicity and ease of maintenance on the rifle, (I still want a stainless version).

Not much difference in accuracy as far as I'm concerned, as the replica of my 50 cal Hawken traditional style has about the same rifling in the barrel as my 50 cal Kinght inline does. As I got older and the eyes faded I am glad to have the in-line scoped rifle. I also love my replica of the 1858 "new army" 45 powder gun for the hawgs down here that can "outrun" a rifle at close distance in palmettos.

Basketcase

[dukenukum]

traditional my dad used to dress up like Daniel Boone when I was a kid now the fever has me .my favorite two front stuffers are my .69 cal trade gun and my .58 zouave both have killed more deer than I can remember only a few days left before Michigan black powder :deer: season