question on scope power

[neolithic hunter]

in the recent years i've noticed that most of the people i shoot with have gone to higher power scopes on there rifles. when i was a younger man most all of my rifles had a fixed 4 power scope on them. at the time this was more than enough power to hunt with. now that i'm a little older and my eyes are a little weeker, i've switched to fixed 6 power scopes. the reason i ask is that people are accuiring scopes with 4x12 and 5x16 powers and some hunters are using 6.5x20's on there deer rifles. what's the deal is everybody's eye going to **** or what. are they being used in place of a spoting scope? to this day when i'm hunting deer sized game and bigger, i still see no need for a scope with more than 6 power, or one that weighs as much as my target scopes do. :cool:

[BigEd63]

Well it could help some see the difference between antlerless deer, doe and a buck. Sorta serving like a spotting scope.

But I agree in most cases 4-6x would serve just as well.

[Clint Boyer]

I don't really think necessity has much to do with it. Modern scopes are technologically advanced and the prices are not prohibitive.
Compare it to the music source in your vehicle (remember the 8 track?), or any other techno gizmo.
Times are changing, although I still have a fixed 4 Redfield wide angle on my .270, it's put many deer and elk to the ground.

[hipster]

I have had mostly varable power scopes on centerfires except for one. One 2-7 and the rest were 3x9. I can only remember a few I times turned the power up to max in a hunting situation. Most of them stayed at 4x or so except for shooting at the range. It is nice to have the extra power when you need it, but considering I limit myself to 250 yards on big game it is not required for what I am capable of under field conditions. I must admit though a nice big variable with a proper set of mounts and bases can make the right rifle just look sexy.

[Clint Boyer]

Yeah! SEXY!
http://www.molalla.net/~cboyer/kimbers

[hipster]

Yeah! SEXY!
http://www.molalla.net/~cboyer/kimbers



Ohhhhhh yes sexy is the word! thanks for the pic Clint

[Chili Willi]

Low light conditions are the main reason for higher power scopes in my area. Makes it easier to see horns, angles of the deer for shot placement,etc. That said, I use two old redfields for hunting-1 3/4-5 on the 06, and 2-7 on the .270, both wide fields. I DO NOT use them for spotting scopes, as I have had other hunters POINTING LOADED RIFLES at me, using their high powered scopes for that purpose! Makes me DAMN nervous. Always use binocs to verify what may or may not be a deer(or other game animal) before pointing a loaded rifle at it!

[RIKA]

My hunting scopes are mostly 3x9 but I usually keep them set at 4-5X when deer hunting. I like the variable because the extra magnification is there if I need it.

RIKA

[7of7]

I am going to be changing my scope to a 3.5X10. I just want the extra magnification if I need it.

[Magnum88C]

I prefer fixed-power scopes in 4 or 6 power.

[Flinter]

3-9 is the standard for me. Normally it's set on 3 power, but if I hunt the bigger fields around here I crank it up.

[Mad Mike]

My Rem 700P has a Leo 6-24X on her, I need that power for my old eye balls !!! :devil:

[Aslan]

most of my guns are either 2-7 or 3-9 scoped.

The exception being my varmint rig, which sports a 6-18. I'm going to replace the 6-18 with a 3-9. 6x is not very friendly for quick shots on coyotes that pop up under 50yds.

while the higher power scopes are very useful for longer ranges, they suffer at quick acquisition of targets at shorter ranges.

:devil:

[Mad Mike]

So true, but I still need the POWER!!!! :nyah:

[Ankeny]

For years I used 3-9X or 2.5-8X Leupolds. I have also used the 3.5-10X. Recently I switched to a 5-15X Nightforce scope. I find it's a lot easier to make a long shot with more magnification. Of course, being able to dial in has advantages too. Besides, the scope just looks so tacticool.
http://www.trib.com/~rankeny/scope.jpg

[KJUN]

With all of the super-micro-management regs on deer in some states now (by law or by lease regulations) I sometimes wish for a spotting scope in the stand with me. I'm a meat hunter and not a horn hunter (I don't even like horn hunting), so i shoot the first legal deer I see. If I shot all of my tags on opening day and then spent the rest of the cool season hunting hogs, I'd be in meat heaven. Anyway, I'm getting side tracked.

With all of the rules on what you can't shoot, you need to be able to sometimes count the hairs on the deer's head to know if it is a legal buck or not. THAT is why I've got a 12x on my .30-06. On my lease (stupid rules that are counter-productive to their management goals, but I won't go into that now), I can shoot one 4pt, but nothing smaller. Even with the 12-power I've been in a situation where at 100-150 yards, I couldn't tell if one of the tines on a 4-pointer was a scorable point or not. It was taller than wide, but I couldn't tell if it was an inch or not.

So, I let it walk. No biggie, I know. BUT, that could be a reason why more and more people are using them. It is why I upgraded from a 3-9x on some of my rifles.

Of course, you have the other crowd that thinks, with a .30-06, you can hit it if you see it. (I almost laugh every time I hear that crap.) With the right scope, they seem to believe you can hit it without any hold-over or worry about wind deflection. Almost funny.....

KJ

[Ankeny]

With the right scope, they seem to believe you can hit it without any hold-over or worry about wind deflection. Almost funny.....

Actually, with the right scope you don't need any Kentucky windage at all, just dial the corrections or use the reticle. The problem is having good dope and the skill to make the shot. The most difficult part of the equation is doping the wind. In this day of rangefinders determining the drop is easy, but wind can be unpredicatable across irregular topography. When hunting I carry a Kestrel pocket wind meter, a Dell Pocket PC with Exbal, and a Leica rangefinder. I have verified my trajectory out to 800 yards (with my hunting rifle) in 50 yard increments. There is no room for guess work. With winds of 5 mph or less, my wobble zone determines my maximum effective range and wind plays almost no role.

This year I took my antelope (Pronghorn) at 625 yards with the .30-.338 shown above. The elk I shot ten days ago was at 487 yards. The last 4 elk I have taken were all beyond 400 yards. No misses, no cripples, no losses. All of the shots had a couple of things in common. The range was known, there was a zero value or near zero value wind, there was no guessing where to hold, the rifle and optics were unquestionable, and the guy on the trigger was capable of getting the hit. Having said all of that, I have turned down shots at under 300 yards because the environmental conditions created enough doubt in my mind that I wasn't 100 per cent sure I would get a quick, clean, humane kill.

[KJUN]

You misunderstood. The "weekend warriors" I was picking on are the ones that believe the .30-06 drops so little that you can shoot WITHOUT ADJUSTMENT at ANY range (under any wind condition, presumeably) that you can spot the deer at as long as the rifle is sighted in at 200 yards.

Obviously pure bull-puckey, but they number of "hunters" that believe that based on what I hear is astounding!

[Ankeny]

Kjun:

We have two issues going on here. I am addressing optics and what it takes to shoot at distance. I think you are talking about the disillusioned slob hunter and I agree with you 100 percent. Out here in Wyoming we have some incredibly wide open ranges. There is nothing more disgusting than watching a group of hunters with their 300 Ultra mags open up on a herd of elk at 700 yards. Optics, hot calibers, long range hunting television shows, in combination with a good dose of ego can lead to some really poor decision making.

[DaRkWoLf]

Out here in Wyoming we have some incredibly wide open ranges. There is nothing more disgusting than watching a group of hunters with their 300 Ultra mags open up on a herd of elk at 700 yards.

I still have the wyoming conditions (from ITRC; temp 60F alt 3860ft) in my PDA actually, so for reference to further rub in what your talking about, at 700 Yards my really hot 200 gr 3127 FPS 300 RUM load drops 3.66 mils and according to the handloads.com ballistic calc is:

Remaining FPS: 2066
Drop (inches): 117.8
Time of Flight: 0.83

[Hard Rock]

Kjun:

We have two issues going on here. I am addressing optics and what it takes to shoot at distance. I think you are talking about the disillusioned slob hunter and I agree with you 100 percent. Out here in Wyoming we have some incredibly wide open ranges. There is nothing more disgusting than watching a group of hunters with their 300 Ultra mags open up on a herd of elk at 700 yards. Optics, hot calibers, long range hunting television shows, in combination with a good dose of ego can lead to some really poor decision making.

Agreed... If you are going to hunt long range, know what the hell you are doing. I'll hunt long range but I've got the experience and training to back that decision up. I've never had a deer run from a long range hit from me but I've seen other guys that didn't know what they were doing end up chasing animals for literally miles because they had poor judgement.

On the flip side of it, two weeks ago, I had to kill a doe at 750 yards that a newbie hunter gut shot at 30 yards. He got excited and spooked her instead of taking a finishing shot. We trailed her for nearly three miles before I saw her on the other end of a sod field. I didn't take any chances and finished her off.

I wish they'd have stricter requirements for hunting. Some people just don't have what it takes to make a clean kill.

Mike

[Clint Boyer]

I wish they'd have stricter requirements for hunting. Some people just don't have what it takes to make a clean kill.

You know, while I agree that the better someone is trained to hunt, the safer we'd all be and the game would suffer less.

BUT.......What I fear more then inexperience is experienced people calling for more restrictions.

There's just something about a govt agency writing MORE restrictions upon the public that rubs me the wrong way.

[KJUN]

Clint, I cringed when I read that post for the same reason! What we need is more hunters influencing other hunters. Make that person KNOW he is wrong for his actions, that he should be shamed, and that it won't be tolerated by you.

I know some people here hunt deer with a .223. I've said it before and I'll say it again: except in RARE circumstances, I find that to be unethical. I don't want a law saying you can't do it, but lergal doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. I just make sure that I don't hunt with someone that is using a .223 and NOBODY I ever bring hunting with me will ever use a .223. Period. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant. That is what I believe, so I will do my best to encourage others to behave as I see ethically. My choice just like it is your choice to use agree or disagree with my ethics.

Sooo, I do NOT want to see more regulations, but it would be great if hunters would try to get others to voluntarily hunt ethically...noit that we all agree on what is ethical or what is not ethical.

Unless you are taking "close" njeck shots on normal to small sized deer in open areas, it still disgusts me to think of someone using a .223 to hunt white-tails. Disgusts me MORE to see more .gov regs, though.

KJ

[Hard Rock]

I guess I should rephrase my comment... I'd like to see hunters pass not only a safety course but be able to hit a damned target and have some clue about where to hit an animal to put it down quickly and humanely.

Guntard is a prime example with his "shot a rabbit in the foot with a .308 and it didn't go down" BS.

Mike

[Aslan]

I guess I should rephrase my comment... I'd like to see hunters pass not only a safety course but be able to hit a damned target and have some clue about where to hit an animal to put it down quickly and humanely.

Guntard is a prime example with his "shot a rabbit in the foot with a .308 and it didn't go down" BS.

Mike

Ah yes, the infamous - "the .308 is a lousy round because I shot a rabbit in the leg and it didn't die" statement.

Sigh.

:devil:

[T. Daves]

Kjun, what do you consider close neck shots, my Mom and Dad once upon a time used a .222 rem for deer season and never lost an animal, and that's at around 100 yards. As I've said before it's not the round, but where you put it that counts. To say that a person who uses a small caliber round to hunt with is unethical is a very broad statement in the least. How about those yeahoos that use a 30-06 and still can't bring down the animal they are hunting. In our part of the neighborhood a whitetail deer averages 120# field dressed, what are you suppose to use, a .338 mag. to bring down something like that.

[T. Daves]

And to be of topic, all my scoped rifles, with the exception of .22's, have 3x9 scopes on them sighted in on 6x, and that's where they stay.