Fallout from Hurricane Rita?

[Rich Z]

What's the inside scoop? Are the oil rigs going to get damaged and we'll have another gasoline crisis? Are prices going to skyrocket?

What is everyone hearing on the grapevine?

[T. Daves]

With 25-30% of the U.S. oil being refined around Houston, and no one at the refineries to produce gas, get ready for about a buck a gallon hike in gas prices.

[Flinter]

I keep seeing $5/gallon on the 'net. I have no idea where that number comes from though.

I filled (2) 5 gallon cans today and filled the truck up just in case there is a shortage around here. Cost me 60 bucks. What else can I do though? Gotta have gas.......work is 42 miles away.

I have a Subaru that I drive back and forth, I figure if worse comes to worse I can use the gas cans and then drain the tank on the truck to use in my work car. Since the truck is a '78 and gets 13 mpg, I am currently using it as a gasoline storage tank. :nyah:

[Magnum88C]

Look to another price hike from an artifical shortage just like last time.

Ever notice that whenever a storm hits the gulf coast, that 25-30% of whatever capacity is always damaged. Time to make up some new numbers for their fantasy.


Think of this: I remember in 1978 gas was 87¢ a gallon in Taxachusetts. This spring it was $1.87 a gallon. So, in 27 years, gas went up $1. Since this spring it went up another $1. Sorry, I don't buy it that they have to jack prices up again.

[KJUN]

Look to another price hike from an artifical shortage just like last time.

...and where did you make up the data to say it was an artificial shortage?

[Magnum88C]

I guess you missed the federal charges being levied at the oil companies citing they had purposely throttled back available production (taking into account the damaged refineries) in order to create an artificial shortage and boost prices?

[KJUN]

I guess you missed the federal charges being levied at the oil companies citing they had purposely throttled back available production (taking into account the damaged refineries) in order to create an artificial shortage and boost prices?

If true, I did miss it. However, as in what happened in LA, the bottleneck was the tank batteries (pumping stations to the rest of the world). No matter what poroduction in the gulf was, it couldn't get to the refineries to get turned into fuel. Heck, I'd believe it if they cut back pumping because the batteries were full and no way to send the petroleum further!

Besides, you said CHARGES and not CONVICTION. Don't you believe in innocent until proven guilty? Even if found innocent, would that just add more fuel to your oil company conspiracy theory?

(BTW - I just did a search to look for some of those reference. I didn't find where charges were actually leveed. I did find a BUNCH of articles where people were bitching over the oil companies making a profit. That is just socialism raising its ugly head to me. Capitalism is what made this country great - most of us would agree - until it hits OUR pocketbook. Once that happens, we start leaning towards a socialistic attitude while still hypocritically saying we are freedom-loving Americans. You can't be a little bit pregnant for socialism!)

[41mag]

I did find a BUNCH of articles where people were bitching over the oil companies making a profit. That is just socialism raising its ugly head to me. Capitalism is what made this country great - most of us would agree - until it hits OUR pocketbook. Once that happens, we start leaning towards a socialistic attitude while still hypocritically saying we are freedom-loving Americans. You can't be a little bit pregnant for socialism!)

This kind of opinion facinates me.Even if you're sleeping on a mattress stuffed w/$100 bills how are you going to survive as an individual if there are no products in the local stores?If fuel goes to $5-6-7 or more/gallon just how many companies are going to fold?Right now a lot of companies are either absorbing their cost increases from the higher fuel costs or are adding a fuel surcharge.These are the places still in business.Have you ever been to,seen,or atleast know the whereabouts of a wholesale vehicle auction?Well,we have a few around here.They look like a stadium parking lot w/out the stadium.My point?Well,in the monthe post 9/11 those lots started filling-slowly-w/medium duty trucks & tractor-trailer rigs.You know,the delivery trucks that actually deliver the beans & bullets?The cost of diesel had jumped so high & stayed there that owner operators(small business owners.the ones who help prop up our economy) couldn't afford to pay their loans & so they lost their businesses.Heck even TNT Holland Motor Express which is part of a world wide shipping conglomerate stopped buying semis.We have a Ford dealer accross the highway that has,dor twenty years,sold Holland Motor between 200 & 300 new semis every year.Their order was canceled for '02,'03,& IIRC,they bought only about 150 new semis in '04.Why?Because the cost of fuel went up & they absorbed the costs by putting band aids on used equipment that should have been scrapped.

Now fast forward a couple of years.Fuel goes to $3.00 plus.The trucking/freight hauling industry is ready for it.How long before the costs of beans & bullets skyrockets?ex.My company ships about 20 odd packages per day via UPS.In the last four years the cost of shipping a one pound package has risen by about a dollar.So what you say?It's only a buck-suck it up!Well multiply that dollar by $40,000.That's one dollar/pound of freight on a max loaded 53 foot trailer.What's a gallon of milk weigh?Eight pounds?How many kids do you have?How long could you afford to pay $8-10/gallon of milk?

My point is that it isn't just fuel that will cost more.If you think that all you need to do is budget an extra $20/week & every thing else will stay the same is looking down the road.Companies aren't going to absorb increases for long.If the oil companies can garner record profits then,sooner or later,everything else is going to cost more.A lot more.

[41mag]

LOL,I lost the first half of my post.Wierd.Anyways...

The morning that Katrina landed the local rep for J&H oil(one of two petro product suppliers in West Michigan) stopped in to take our order.When asked about fuel prices in light of the hurricane & rumors of stopped production he told us that the wholesale cost of gas was raised $.21/gallon & would remain that way for the near future.That morning the retail price of gas jumped from $2.69ish to $2.99-3.09/gal.That's a 25-50% increase on the small raise in cost.Anyways,the next morning we heard that the stations in towns about 20 miles out were all going to $3.48/gallon.That's w/no more increase on the wholesale side.Our Govenor went on the tube & warned the gas stations that She would fine any gougers.Wonder of wonders,the retail price dropped back to $3.09 over night & has dropped back to $2.54ish(what I paid three days ago).

[Magnum88C]

In answer: two papers (them things you buy in the little square boxes by the road) said charges were FILED. I guess I should have waited to hear it on the internet.

Anyways, 41mag basically gave you what my response would be (great magnums think alike?).
But the good thing is, all the believers in unrestricted capitalism just threw away any right to bitch, EVER, abou the prices of things -- Hey! It's a free market!

Wait'll you see my tax for using the road in front of my house! (Hey, I have to maintain it because I own land on both sides? you have to pay a usage tax -- or repair your vehicle for passing without clearance. :D

Have a nice day.

[KJUN]

No offense, but this chicken little attitude of Americans isn't new. I remember people a couple of years ago saying the US system would end when gas hit $2.50/gallon. It hasn't. Strained, yes, but it has been strained for a LONG dang time. Saying you can't buy milk for $8 a galloon is the same as people saying a few year ago that we couldn't buy it at today's prices. At some point the system WILL collapse (nothing lasts forever), but I would rather SEE it collapse for that reason than due to a slide into socialism. Better dead than red may be an outdated saying, but the essense should still be true. I'm just sick and tired of all the damn rhetoric from EVERYONE predicting "the end" and nobody doing nothing. Talk is cheap and getting MUCH cheaper. Additionally, those of us that claim to believe in pure responsibility of self and as much liberty as possible drop it when we get scared. THEN, we bad mouth the liberals for doing the same exact damn thing at just an EARLIER point on theslifding scale. We are hypocrites.

OK, I've said this before, but OPEC is getting in the neighborhood of $70/barrel for oil. If we don't buy it at that price, China will. THEY don't NEED to lower the price. We can produce it for less in the US, but the companies can either sell it locally for about the same price or sell it overseas for the $70/barrel. Do you expect a company to take a loss and sell it for $35/barrel? That's impossible, and a stupid thing to even joke about saying should be done. They'd just stop drilling here, move everything overseas, and sell everything overseas first (my WAG). This would cause an INCREASE in prices (lower supply). So, we'll just have to deal with $70/barrel for crude until world supply decreases (no time soon) - increasing the supply would just be a relatively SHORT-TERM fix since the supply of oil - no matter how large - is STILL FINITE! I'd rather have to pay MORE today than rush closer the day when there is VERY LITTLE left regardless of if you believe the 50 year or 300+ year estimate. I'm not that selfish towards the mining of future generations stock.

At $30-35/barrel, we were getting oil at the $1+/gallon cost. At $70/barrel, there is no way to produce it at that cost. Without assuming an increase in production cost (inflation alone makes that an invalid assumption!), $2.00/galloon is the minimum one could expect for them to break even even if there is no delivery charge, station charge, etc. Not gonna happen, Jack. (OVER-SIMPLIFICATION WARNING: Not all fuel is in demand at the same rate nor equal: diesel is pretty grade on the scale from that hypothetical barrel while grapejuice (old term) is a pretty high grade. Prices are accordingly spaced. Some things may go for less than the price of crude, etc. because of this factor, i.e., almost a "waste by-product."

Besides, only about 3% of diesel goes to our car/trucks on the road type of transportation. Think they really care how much we bitch? The buy users drive that cart and pony show.

KJ

[KJUN]

Wait'll you see my tax for using the road in front of my house! (Hey, I have to maintain it because I own land on both sides? you have to pay a usage tax -- or repair your vehicle for passing without clearance.

Assuming you OWN the road and no tax dollars went into construction or maintenance, what is your point?

[Magnum88C]

Assuming you OWN the road and no tax dollars went into construction or maintenance, what is your point?
Point is, don't bitch when paying the maintainance toll. In our free economy, nothing is free.
And tax dollars will be put into maintaining it. . .just not mine :nyah:


You know, you're right, I like this free economy stuff.

Guess I'll have to add a toll booth at the front gate also. The property appraisers will have to pay a toll equal to the tax on my property to come on and assess it. . .hmmmm.

After all, why should I take a loss paying for something I already own, yes?

[KJUN]

> Point is, don't bitch when paying the maintainance toll. In our free economy, nothing is free.

I think that supports what I was saying, or is is saying something else in such convoluted way that I am just reading into it what I was already saying.???

> Guess I'll have to add a toll booth at the front gate also. The property appraisers will have to pay a toll equal to the tax on my property to come on and assess it. . .hmmmm.

If the gate could be closed to visitors except for every other leap day with a blue moon and the strok of midnight for 666 seconds only, I'd be "down wit dat," too.

KJ

[Magnum88C]

Yes




wurdz wurdz wurdz

[BigEd63]

Guess I'll have to add a toll booth at the front gate also. The property appraisers will have to pay a toll equal to the tax on my property to come on and assess it. . .hmmmm.

You know what?

I might try that myself. :dgrin:

[John in AR]

...because I own land on both sides...

No you don't. You lease it from the government at the current, arbitrary tax rate. ;)

In the U.S, you never truly "own" land the way you "own" a hammer or a pair of shoes. If you did, nobody could take it away for "missing a payment".

But they can, can't they....

[Magnum88C]

Oh, no, no, I OWN it.

Which is why the property assessor must pay a toll equal to my yearly tax to come on the property to assess it (see, it's real fair, HE decides how much HE pays). I let the government man on MY property, and HE pays the government tax. That way the money just swirls around in the government toilet.

Oh, and I don't HAVE to have the "closed to visitors except for every other leap day with a blue moon and the strok of midnight for 666 seconds only". It's MY property, I can decide who I charge admission, and who I don't.

:nyah: :nyah: :nyah:

Man, I'm glad I had my eyes opened! I love this free market ****!

[agreed]

when people still have bucks for videos, games, beer, cigarettes, bs type cars, homes, etc, they aint hurting.

[KJUN]

when people still have bucks for videos, games, beer, cigarettes, bs type cars, homes, etc, they aint hurting.


I actually "agreed" with that statement...pun intended. :)

Seriously, people are doing more bitching and moaning about the price of fuel than actually reducing their gas consumption. I mean directly and indirectly (ex: using less electricity, etc.)

KJ

[agreed]

They gave up their guns like the wussies that they are. BAD precedent, when dealing with jbt's.

[Magnum88C]

Almost as bad as surrendering to phone calls and meter maids. Or going down with nary as much as a fight, while supposedly surrounded by submachineguns one supposedly built.

No respect at all after that.