Custom Kimber, BigJonKimber #0000001

[cbass]

I'm an ass for not posting this sooner. Would have, but I didn't get to the range last weekend - will remedy that Sunday. I bought a Kimber Pro Carry II that I expected to replace my Browning Hi Power as pistola numero uno in my full size category. But when it arrived I was regretting it, the Kimber wasn't nearly as slick as the Browning I bought new five or six years ago. Not even close. Granted, the Browning has a trigger job with the magazine safety disconnect removed and also has around 1500 rounds through it, over 500 of them +P Nato spec ball from Georgia Arms. But this was a Kimber and I expected the magic the name is associated with. It jammed high the first time I dropped the slide release on a mag of WWB ball. Felt like a bad omen. I emailed BigJon about it, he said "Bring it over ASAP, I will NOT fugg up your Kimber!" Knowing Jon and his participation in the Patriot class I jumped at it and drove over first convenient evening.

I wish I could tell you everything he did to it to smooth it out. Truth is, I was playing with his Patriot pistol so much it didn't seem a big deal he was filing, grinding, and polishing on my new Kimber. It's that nice! Anyway, he slicked it up by micrometer and feel until he was satisfied. And lent me a McCormick 8 rd mag to boot. Plus one major modification I can't post about without pictures, I'll make them tomorrow and post.

Thanks Jon!

[cbass]

Here's where the custom touch comes. I joked on the abbreviated slide release and Jon said "Let me see it." He had an extra there he swapped in and noticed the grooves matched. Which inspired him to thin it and radius it to match the safety. The picture is crappy, but you can see the safety and slide release mirror each other. Very nice touch, and much easier to use.
http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL534/828983/16853426/264215563.jpg

[arebindixie]

I have a Kimber Pro Carry and a Browning HP. Both are fine pistols that fulfill my purposes. I carry the Kimber more often but the Browning shoots better. I'm not kicking either out of bed anytime soon. Nice work on your Pro Carry II. BTW, I find the fit and finish on the Browning to be much better than on the Kimber.

[neolithic hunter]

well kimber makes a pretty good 1911, then so do a lot of manufactures. the only problem i have with the 1911 today is the price that the well known companies want for there guns. i really can't see putting out $800.00 to god knows what for a gun i can build myself for under $400.00. i've seen a lot of crap on the net about how the name brands sell for more when you want to get ride of it, but i don't build pistols with the intent to sell it in the future. when i have a gun i like i have a tendency to hang on to it. if i don't like it i just change it till i do. a lot of the post you read on the net makes it seam like, if you don't own a $1500.00 to $3000.00 gun what you have is junk and could defend youself with anything less. well i would stake my life on any gun i've made, and not feel the least bit under gunned or worried about it working like it was designed in a pinch. when it come to 1911's pretty is as pretty does. :cool:

[cbass]

You won't catch me with a $1500 to $3000 gun, period. Well... I'd get a .50 cal if I could just for the novelty. :)

But fantasy aside, pistol or rifle, I believe I can buy new and get it like I want it for $1000 or less. I've got about $800 in the BHP (purchase price + CS hammer and trigger job) that suddenly 'needs' night sights. I ordered them on the Kimber and love them so I'd like a set on the Browning.

If I could build the guns I want for less I'd do it and admire those who can. I also got to handle Jon's hybrid he put together and have a real respect for anyone that can build their own.

[BigJon]

Wow! Just saw this. cbass, you've got me blushin'. Hey, man, I'm just a rookie too - it's just that we old folks need something to occupy our time, and filing and grinding are MY therapy. lol!

That Kimber is one nice pistol. I believe I am correct in saying that particular model is a design pioneered by Dave Sample many years ago. The attached photo is of his Eagle 3 pistol.

Also, if you look at the top-down photo you posted, you'll also see the little notch in the back of the hood. Dave started doing that decades ago, and like other stuff he did, that's now on production pistols too.

Now, back to cbass. Being the ultimate gentleman that he is, he omitted the part about where he took the pistol back to the range after I worked on it and still had some troubles. He said that it's not choking as badly as before, and I'm betting (hoping) that it's just a matter of running a few hundred rounds through it and using better ammo to do it - I believe I'm correct that all he tried at the initial outing was Winny Whitebox. Also, he mentioned that the Power Mag seemed to do better than the Kimber mag that came with the pistol. He mentioned the other day that he'd purchased a few more Power Mags, so with that and a little more breakin, hopefully he'll be running fine.

Best,
Jon

P.S. - No, I did NOT say that I would NOT fubar his Kimber - I said that IF I fubared it, I would pay for the damage! lol!

[neolithic hunter]

from what cbass says you did, you did a good job bigjon. pistol still looks nice. when it comes to 100% reliability in a 1911 it can take 50 to 500 rounds some times before the pistol gets to that point. i have built a few of them and i've only built one that functioned prefecty from the begining, without at least some breakin. if the pistol is not functioning reliably by the time you get to 500 rnds then i would say you mite have a problem. most problems with 1911's are generaly just little things gumming up the works. lol and have fun shooing it. :cool:

[cbass]

neolithic hunter - I think the 'little things' gumming up the works was my choice in gun oil. I've been using LSA Medium Weapons Oil since about '93 or so. It's a touch thick. Runs well on a broken-in gun but as it turns out maybe the Kimber is too tight from the factory for a thicker oil. That was apparent pretty quick. I could feel the gun gumming up when going into battery after only the first fifty rounds.

What Jon didn't mention was he did a tune on it before it was even fired the first time, using what he learned in the Patriot class. So I'd have been an ass if I posted about jams when I've only run 100 rds of WWB through it when the owner's manual calls for 400 to 500 rounds to break it in. It's just not broken in yet.

I bought five of the Power Mags, they came Tuesday but my ammo order from Georgia Arms isn't here yet. I'll finish the break-in shortly. Jon, I should also mention handling your Patriot decided my grip choice for me - smooth, but cocobolo. But not too red. Medium brown/red. Should make a nice subtle contrast from the matte finish. :)

I haven't yet figured out how to repay you, but you know I'll put a feather in your hat. :beer:

[BigJon]

Neo is right on the money. Let's just shoot the heck out of her for a bit. I think she'll be good to go. And cbass, about "paying me back," don't even go there. This is all a learning experience for me, and I appreciate your trusting me enough to let me practice on your weapon!

Best,
Jon

P.S. - Oh, and another reason I think it just needs to be broken in is that after I smoothed things out, we hand-cycled two mags through the pistol, one with ball and one with HPs, and everything went smooth as silk. So, I think if we run a few hundred through it and keep it clean and lubed during the break-in period, the pistol oughta be fine.

[Captain Eagle]

Interesting ideas here. Nice picture of EAGLE 2, "The Shortsword" that I built long before there was a Kimber around.
I shipped 90 % of the Custom 1911's that I built without test firing them. They all ran from round one until now as none of them ever came back. The only reason I ever test fired any of them was for fun. I knew they would run. If you do it right, they have no choice.

My idea was always to get them to about 90% and then let the gun finish the job. I wanted them to shoot from the first round, but I wanted to guts to get to know each other and get happy.

These were not Factory Guns. They were Custom Guns with 100-150 hours of my time in them, sometimes. Every part was touched and addressed so that was happy with the other parts. EAGLE 2 runs 100 % because Chuck R. taught me how to make an Officers Model sing! I did not like them and still don't because they were poorly designed by Colt. Mine runs because I designed it and used the right recoil system and tweaked it where it needed it.

All 1911's need to be shot in to some degree. They do get better to a point and then they start to wear out. I expect 100,000 rounds out of Jon's gun before it goes tits up. He did a great job and it will serve him well.

[BigJon]

Well, my pal Cbass is still having fits with his Kimber. So far, I've replaced the firing pin stop - the stock one was loose as a goose, and I fit up an oversized one. Seems that he's having extraction problems now. I have a new, aftermarket extractor to add to the pistol. Other than that, I've pretty much been humbled - I know first-hand now how finicky these little guns are. So, I called the Captain, and he said for me to "Send it on!" So, looks like Cbass's Kimber is heading out to Arizona for some knowledgeable surgery for a change!

Best,
Jon

[neolithic hunter]

when you send it out be sure to send all of the parts you've already replaced. so the smith can look at them and see why you replaced them. other then that, if you can't get it to run right it mite have other tolerance problems that are not obviouse to most, who done have all of the tools and gages to check it out every part on it. i had one years ago that would not eject unless you held it on its side, couldn't figure it out for the life of me. put it down for a couple of months, then came back to it, turned out to be a magazine problem. its the only pistol i've ever own that only liked military mags. :cool:

[Captain Eagle]

Every 1911 is different. They are built with certain tolerances. They are built on different days of the week. Wednesdays' are the best. Friday is the worst.
A Monday gun can go either way.
I will report back when it comes here.

[BigEd63]

........ i had one years ago that would not eject unless you held it on its side, couldn't figure it out for the life of me. .....

Aww man you had one of those rare 1911 "gansta" editions. :dgrin:

[BigJon]

I will report back when it comes here.

Good, Captain! That'll help me learn. Am betting it's the extractor. That's what I'm laying my odds on.

I owe you and Felina a steak dinner for this one!

Best,
Jon

[BigJon]

Aww man you had one of those rare 1911 "gansta" editions. :dgrin:


Did it have these installed?

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/images/nyte-sytes.jpg

Yea, I know - it's an oldie . . . but still a goodie!

Best,
Jon

[RIKA]

Birdman Weapons Systems ..... built for birdbrains by birdbrains! :D

RIKA

[BigJon]

I was trying to be funny. I guess you'd call that "fowl humor."

Sorry ... I know ... that was awful!

[Captain Eagle]

RIKA cracks me up! Wonderful sense of humor!

Take to the Air, Junior Birdmen................................

[cbass]

You always want a new gun to run flawlessly out of the box, but can you imagine a better situation when you get one that does have teething issues?

Jon and Dave, I really appreciate the interest you've taken in my gun and in getting it running right. Thank you, gentlemen!

[Captain Eagle]

It took a lot longer to get the two boxes open than to diagnose the Kimber.
It has a messed up barrel link in it that allows the barrel to have too much of a gap that we need for the round to jump up into the chamber. The link appears to be sloppy so I am hoping that a new link will allow it to feed everything that we stuff up it's snout!
I am going to take some pictures of the gun I built long before there was a Kimber. Side by side.

Listen up and listen tight, little brothers and sisters!

When you copy something, copy it right, and don't try to outsmart your self!

Mine is so much better!!!!!!!!!!!

Just call me Mr. Humble................

[BigJon]

You always want a new gun to run flawlessly out of the box, but can you imagine a better situation when you get one that does have teething issues?

Jon and Dave, I really appreciate the interest you've taken in my gun and in getting it running right. Thank you, gentlemen!

cbass, you know how I feel about this - I am HONORED that you would entrust your new pistol to me to practice on. We got the first problem fixed, but with regard to the new situation, although I couldn't get you straight, but . . . it's in good hands now!!!

Best,
Jon

[cbass]

cbass, you know how I feel about this - I am HONORED that you would entrust your new pistol to me to practice on. We got the first problem fixed, but with regard to the new situation, although I couldn't get you straight, but . . . it's in good hands now!!!

Best,
Jon

Yes, it is - and thanks to you. Dave, I owe you - thank you, sir. Jon, there was never a pause about letting you have at it.

[Captain Eagle]

Don W. came by today for a quick visit. I showed him the Kimber and we jerked the top end off and sure enough, a huge hole in the barrel link. I then took the top end off of EAGLE II and the hole was sloppy, but not really oversized. It is a stock Colt link and they are always a little forgiving. I will measure them along with the new link I will install. The feed ramp is not the greatest, but might be OK once the new link is in. This thing has a firing pin safety and the big cut right above the ejector. Not very smart on a LW gun, but they do use the best grade of aluminum around. I am underwhelmed, but I do like the gun for what it is. Why they didn't do a ramped barrel is beyond me.
I will get some pictures up later.

[RIKA]

Some pics would be welcome, Capt. I don't have a clue what you are talking about.

RIKA

Hey, how about photos of some of the prize pistolas that your students created. That would be neat.

[Captain Eagle]

RIKA: I am refering to the hole in the barrel link that the slide stop pin goes through. There is two holes in the link, one that pins the link to the barrel, and the one I am talking about. If the hole is too big the barrel is allowed to go too far forward. This makes the 1/32 gap on the frame larger than needed and creates a "Shelf" for the hollow point to catch on. There is a fudge factor on the gap dimension, but not much. That may not fix it , but it's where I will start.
Always start with the obvious, and then pursue the problem to the end.

I will show you some guns.

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/2976451/36708929.jpg

This is our version of the N.O.P. Online Class of 2003 Blinger. (New Orleans Pimp) Pearl handled Bling Blaster.

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/2976451/36708859.jpg

http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL368/953404/2976451/36380555.jpg



$20,000 worth of Diamond Ringer Blingers and a priceless Patriot.

[RIKA]

Thanks Capt.

RIKA

[Captain Eagle]

That is just one of a hundred or more that have come over the bench since we started with the class over six years ago. I can also show you pictures of the guns that Jon saw when he came to AZ and my home on the range. I just do not want to overload you nice folks. I have built and tweaked some really nice 1911's.
Dean and I are building a LW Commander in .38 super that will be a one of a kind gun when we are done. I am not going to do any pictures of that one yet. We want it finished before the other guys copy it.

I would also like to say that this is a very nice forum. I am glad Jon helped me find it.

Jon has seen my work so he knows that it is not arrogance when you can put your guns where your mouth is. I am also open to trying to help anyone who has a 1911 problem that they want to fix or have fixed.

[cbass]

Man, what a trip!!!

The thread has died while the gun is still being worked on. Dave found another problem he could have fixed but given the gun being in warranty the problem is Kimbers to rectify.

The point of this post? Kimber's aren't magic - they have the same problems other mass-produced pistols do. There has been some magic, BigJon and Dave.

I'll update soon!

[RIKA]

Glad that your Kimber is being fixed.

RIKA

[Captain Eagle]

The owner of the Pro Carry II has decided to send it back to Kimber. I will have bigjon keep you informed about how this mess turns out.

I have deleted all of the gunforums from my favorites and will no longer be posting on them. I simply have had enough abuse from trying to help people so I gave up. This forum has been a good one and I hated to give it up, but I had to make the tough call and dump all of them. You guys have been a real nice bunch of folks and I hope this forum continues on.

I have almost filled the last PATRIOT Online 1911 C.O.P. Class so we are bringing that Grand Adventure to a close. It is always best to quit at the top of your game!

Thanks again for allowing me to play in your sand box!

[RIKA]

Captain, this is not good news. We could all have profited from your advice and commentary and you in return might have gotten something of value from us. You will be missed.

RIKA

[cbass]

RIKA, check out Dave's forum.

Usually I'm in a foul mood when I get a lemon but the generosity of good folk has (dare I say it?) made this enjoyable. I was straight up with Kimber when I called, they know it's had some work done on it. I didn't get any of the "you voided your warranty" talk. I spoke to Jimmy at Kimber - he said send it back and they'll fix it plus put 100 rds through it to make sure it's running good.

The only downside so far is the set of smooth cocobolo grips still in the package waiting to go on the gun.

[RIKA]

cbass, hey friend where do I find Dave's forum?

Thanks

RIKA

[cbass]

http://p197.ezboard.com/bdavesplace

I think the Patriot class members use a forum that's hidden, as it should be for the price of the class. But there's a Pistolsmithing forum anyone can use.

[Captain Eagle]

Thanks cbass! I should have made that invite.
davesplace has no moderators and no rules. We feel that stuff is silly with grown ups. We put out the good stuff and have a great bunch of folks who post there. We never feel the need to kick someone off of our forum and it is the only one that I can't be kicked off of! It is a fun place and you all would be welcome to come aboard!

[BigEd63]

Cool but since it's on EZ Board I probably will just lurk.

For some reason I've had multiple problems with my registered ID's on forums using their service.:unhappy:

[cbass]

This gun and thread is long overdue closure, but life gets in the way. I've talked to Jon and he's confident a trip to Kimber isn't needed - and I trust Jon. Range report soon, well, at least as soon as our schedules mesh and we can get to the range.

My only regret now is I haven't put in an order with Lou for a Hideout, I'm sure the Kimber will have my confidence shortly and ready for carry.

[cbass]

Schedules meshed! We got out to the range Saturday afternoon. First off, I gotta say my hat's off to Dave. Jon brought every gun he's built and I'd have taken any of them over my Kimber. Only one had a problem and Jon knew what it was but didn't have that part in his tool/parts bag. The rest were boringly reliable. How's that for 1911's built on the kitchen table? Yes, literally, I've seen him at it.

Surprisingly, my gun was still failing to extract once or twice per mag so I put it down and shot Jon's guns - he wanted them thoroughly wrung out. And he tuned my extractor until it ran 100% and drifted the front sight true for me - it was dead-on even at longer distances.

The only downside to the day was Jon getting a FAL out for fun, he said he'd picked it up for $400 somewhere in GA - that thing (at that price) went from zero to the top of my must have list in a blink. I was on gunsamerica last night and this evening and can't find one at that price.:hot:

Thanks Jon, I owe you.



Now for the hollow-point trials...

[BigJon]

Glad we got that sucker runnin, cbass. As I said, if you have any more failures to extract, I have another new extractor, and I believe that situation would be cured by my not doing as "thorough" a radius job on it. I don't expect there to be a problem remaining, but in case . . .

Also, the HPs ought to run fine. If you remember, we lightly throated and thoroughly polished the ramps, chamber mouth and chamber awhile back, so that oughta be no sweat!

Best,
Jon

[cbass]

Thanks, Jon - I appreciate the warranty. ;) Do you have Lou's email addy? It's on my now dead PC, I want to get a Hideout for the Kimber ASAP, it's one more range session from being ready for carry.

It'll be an expensive last test... .45 ACP HP, I hate to think what that range session will cost. But it'll be worth it, I'm diggin the gun and can't wait to carry it.

Again, thanks for your time and effort. I'll be thinking of how best to put a feather in your hat to return the favor.