Colt/Caspian - Just Finished

[BigJon]

This is one I just finished. It's built with a new-in-the-box Colt Series 70 slide from the end of Colt's original Series 70 run on a Caspian “basic” carbon-steel receiver with an integral plunger tube. The parts are from Brown, Caspian, EGW, Dave Berryhill, Colt, Wilson’s, Cylinder & Slide and Wolf. I rust-blued it myself, and all I have yet to add are sights, which I think will be a set of Yost-Bonitz retros. Just thought y'all might like to see it.

Best,
Jon

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/JHC1%20Completed/IMG_3986.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/JHC1%20Completed/IMG_3987.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/JHC1%20Completed/IMG_3993.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/JHC1%20Completed/IMG_3995.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/JHC1%20Completed/IMG_4000.jpg

[RIKA]

That is a most impressive pistol. Everything looks well fitted and your rust blue job is absolutely beautiful. It appears to have that typical blueish-gray tone. Now we can have a range report once you install sights. :)

RIKA

[BigJon]

"Sights? We don't need no stinking sights!: ;)

If the rust blue job gets YOUR nod, well, then I must've done okay.

Actually, though, I'm going to have to redo it. I did it once, and within two days, it appeared to be continuing to rust on the sides of the slide. So, I stripped it all down (the sides) and went back at it. Now, the finish on the sides appears splotchy (not very, but more than I will tolerate). I think I'm going to have to go back to square one, boil it in lye, and go at it again. Yuk!

The thing I'm proudest of re this pistol is the GS. It is a Wilson, although it no longer looks like one because I utterly changed all the contours to make the tail a bit shorter and make the whole swoop MUCH more delicate and graceful I think.

Best,
Jon

[BigJon]

Rika! I need your help! This rust blue job has me bamboozled.

When I first rust-blued this pistol, one side of the slide started to show additional brown rusting a few days after completion. I stripped it all back down, thoroughly prepped and cleanded the metal again, and re-rust-blued it. The re-rusting hasn't recurred, but the finish on that side of the slide looks sort of mottled. I'm an awful photographer (Ichiro I'm not!), but here are a couple of shots of the subject side with all oil removed, and I think you can at least get an idea of what I'm describing.

Any idea what's wrong here? Need to let you know that the sides, unlike the rest of the pistol, were higher polished, somewhere around 800. Am betting that the polish is just to high.

Thanks!

Jon

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/JHC1%20Completed/IMG_4003.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/JHC1%20Completed/IMG_4002.jpg

[RIKA]

Jon, thats frustrating after all the work. I think you are probably right - too high a polish. The metal has to etch a tiny bit for the rust blueing to take.

Let me throw a few things out that you maybe already know so please don't be insulted; just trying to help.

1. The metal has to be absolutely chemically clean for the chemicals to work properly. I use clean cotton gloves to handle the parts after cleaning; either that or rubber gloves and hold the part with a piece of cotton sheet.

2. The 4/0 steel wool used for carding must be absolutely oil free. I burned the oil off by pouring a little Everclear over the wool and setting it afire. Careful, it makes a heckuva hot fire and is hard to put out.

3. Any tiny specks of steel wool left on the metal will promote after rust after final finish carding. I always used Brownells Water Displacing Oil to cover the parts for 2 or 3 days before final wipe down and re-assembling the gun.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1086&title=WATER+DISPLACING+OIL+%22AFTER-BLUING%22+RUST+PREVENTION

4. You might check to be sure that the chemical you are using to remove the rust blue and clean the metal is compatible with the RB solution you are using. I've only done 3 rust blues. Used some stuff Dad had in the garage and it worked great. Tried to get some more but learned that it was no longer sold ... and for a good reason. The stuff was highly carcinogenic. I used it outside and with long rubber gloves so I'm probably okay; its a wonder I'm not dead for some of the dumb tricks I've pulled.

5. When I did the slide on the 1903 I ran a length of degreased iron stove wire through the firing pin channel and out through the front of the slide. This let me suspend the slide in the boiling water without the slide touching the stainless tank. That way there were no hot spots on the metal. Did the same thing with the frame. Don't know whether it helped or not but at least it didn't harm anything.

Anyway, just a few random ideas. I'm betting your pistol will be beautiful soon.

RIKA

[Captain Eagle]

Bluing is a black art! I used to do it. I hate it. The salts are important, the temperatures in the various baths have to be right on, the acid to prep the stuff, On and on. Also the parts have to sit for several days bathed in the right oil before you can assemble the gun. It against the city code here to do bluing as the fumes are very horrible and will eat the nails out of any shed you have the tanks in.
I leave it to the experts. Cory at Gunsite does mine.

Remember that it is a form of making metal rust in a controled fashion.

[RIKA]

Capt, Jon is talking about rust blueing which can be done on the kitchen stove and kitchen table; not about hot salts blueing which requires a special area and special equipment.

Best

RIKA

[Captain Eagle]

Yes! I realize that. I am proud of him for doing stuff I would never attempt. I quit doing work for the public because of the lack of people that could re-finish my guns like I wanted them done. They are the bane of a pistolsmith's existance, but we do need them.
I am very picky!

I had Metaloy in Berryville, Ark, ruin a comp gun I had 150 hours in and a lot of shipping costs, etc. They had it all summer, blasted away the engraving after I told them not to as I shipped it already prepped. I still have it because I can't sell it the way they screwed it up. Jon has seen this gun.
Chip McCormick loved it when I showed it to him at the Shot Show. He saw the finish Boo Boo's right away.

It still is a great shooter. About 30,000 really hot .38 Super rounds through it now and still does 1/2" at 25 yards all day long.

[BigJon]

Yep, I'm up on all the prep steps - extreme cleanliness, enough patience to let the stuff really work before boiling and carding, clean cotton gloves (with no fabric softner, etc.) de-oiling the steel wool with an acetone bath before use, etc. I have the wire, and I used it the first time around, but this time, since I was only re-doing the side of the slide, I just carefully set the slide down on its bottom. I even soaked the slide in a bath of water and baking soda for about 1/2 hour after finishing the last carding.

I swear I think it's that my polish there is too high, and although I used hot soapy water, cleaner and then acetone to clean before hand, I may have not gotten thing clean enough. Sooooo . . . back at it! But hey, the fun is in the trying and learning!

[RIKA]

Capt, I am very proud of Jon's work too. Its carefully done and very professional. The rust blued finish will come out; sometimes it takes more than one try.

"Eye of newt and wing of bat"

RIKA

[BigJon]

I have been using Brownell's old rust blue, and I think (???) Rika said she's partial to the Pilkington's. Has anyone here tried the Mark Lee Express blue? It appears (to the eye) to also be a rusting process, and if that's accurate - if it really is what it looks like - that might be an interesting test for next time.

Best,
Jon

[Captain Eagle]

Boil and Bubble, Oh Cauldron of trouble...........................
I have the gun here as we speak.
If it were metal from bygone years, the home rust blue would work pretty good. I do not think it will ever work with these newer type metals.
I rate the work on this Colt Caspian as Excellent. It is very well done and I am very touched by the progress Jon has made.
Kudo's from the Captain!

[RIKA]

Boil and Bubble, Oh Cauldron of trouble...........................
If it were metal from bygone years, the home rust blue would work pretty good. I do not think it will ever work with these newer type metals.

I rate the work on this Colt Caspian as Excellent.

Jon does excellent work for sure. Now what is the difference between the metals from bygone years and the metals of today? I woulld think that the makers of rust blue solutions would take into account the difference in metals since they have to sell to today's market.

RIKA

[Captain Eagle]

Sorry RIKA. This is the Age of Medioricity! To assume that these people care is a big mistake. The older 1911's were made of forged and machined parts. These parts are investment cast and perhaps the slide was forged, but not with the metals of the bygone days. Also lots of MIM.

If factorys could build decent 1911's, there would have never been a pistolsmith. If you could do a real nice job of stove top bluing that will hold up, there would be no real bluing tanks. Building very high quality 1911's contrary to popular belief on the Internet, is a highly skilled operation and takes years. Jon has a jump start because of me.

Maybe we make it look too easy, but I can assure you that 20 % of our students can't complete the course. 20 out of 100 do not have what it takes to build a Custom Caspian. I screen them as closely as humanly possible and still cannot book a class that has 100% success. The closet I came was 2004 or5 with 18 students and 17 of them completed their PATRIOTS. I have also had 6 that got their money back because they misrepresented their financial ablity and really could not afford the class. I think one of them thanked me for sending their money back which I had no moral obligation to do. I replaced them all within 24 hours with students that were on standby.

For anyone to think that after carrying a .45 1911 on my right hip for over 50 years and building them from the ground up for over 20 years that I know nothing about this is a liitle silly, don't you agree? I have a lot of problems on forums becuase I know too much and it is very hard for me to keep my mouth shut when I should. Sorry. I hear more silly stuff on other forums that some times I get carried away. I do love this place! You are neat guys. I have some stuff to do right now so I am going to give you guys a break and have an O'Douls Green and watch "Waiting for God" on my TV!
See you in the funny papers..........................

[neolithic hunter]

i had the impression that rust bluing takes more than one treatment to complete it correctly. i've seen a couple of rifles of mine blued this way and the smith took 4 days just to blue it to the right color. if i remember correctly day after day he would clean it card it clean it then dip it again over and over to get the final finish. they look really nice but he said it was the last guns he was going to blue that way, it was too time consuming and labor intensive for him. guess i can't really blame him, got it done for a song and a dance though. :cool:

[RIKA]

i had the impression that rust bluing takes more than one treatment to complete it correctly. i've seen a couple of rifles of mine blued this way and the smith took 4 days just to blue it to the right color. if i remember correctly day after day he would clean it card it clean it then dip it again over and over to get the final finish. they look really nice but he said it was the last guns he was going to blue that way, it was too time consuming and labor intensive for him. guess i can't really blame him, got it done for a song and a dance though. :cool:

NH, you are correct that good rust blueing takes many days and many repititions to get a good finish. The only reason I did mine that way was because I didn't count the cost of my time and didn't want to turn my gun over to some guy who would probably overbuff the metal, dish out the screw and pin holes and blur the markings. If I ever refinisn another pistol 'll probably parkerize it though that would require that I buy a sand/bead blasting tool.

RIKA

[Captain Eagle]

I really am in agreement with RIKA because the fumes get to the guys that blue guns. I have had them polish the top rounds of slides and then I had to french cut them , prep them again and send them in to be dunked, and not go anywhere near a polishing wheel. Cory at Gunsite dunks mine and that is all. When I rave about how nice they turn out he "Aw Shucks" me and says it is all in the prep which is not true. It is a two good man deal!

[BigJon]

Okay. This pistol, and it's companion (http://armslocker.com/forums/showthread.php?p=179031) are heading to Glenrock Blue for their Custom Satin Finish. Hopefully, will have some photos of finished guns up soon!

Best,
Jon

[BigJon]

Just got a nice, informative letter from Mr. Don Williams. As I said above, I asked him to add a french border, and add sights. I had also asked him to let me know if he saw anything I could have done better, and today I received a very nice, and informative, letter from him as he prepares to send the gun on to Glenrock Blue for the finish to be applied. Here are the things he noticed that I could have done better:

1. When I lowered the ejection port, I left the front corner radius too soft.
2. I left too small a gap between the top of the frame ramp and the bottom of the chamber when the barrel is all the way rearward (part of this is due to the feedramp specs as manufactured), and
3. I left tool marks on the back of the slide where I blended it with the back of the receiver.

One of the things he devoted the most time to in his letter was to point out how difficult it is to really get cosmetics right, especially getting out ALL of the tool marks and keeping lines straight or at a constant radius. He pointed out that this can be one of the most time-consuming parts of a build, and I am aware that I do need to slow down and take more time in those final things.

Want to say here how much I appreciate someone like Don Williams taking the time to point things out to a rookie like me. These are points that I have taken to heart and, I hope, will allow me to do an even better job on my next build.

Best,
Jon

[Captain Eagle]

I let Don give him the report as it was not an Online 1911 Class pistol.

Jon needs to "SLOW DOWN" He is too much of a hurry and this is time consuming work. Our students can expect us to take way 150 hours of their time to build a gun tha would take me about 40 hours. I try to pound it into their heads that this course is not a race to completing. It's a leaning experience and a Grand Adventure. Make it last as long as you can!

He did do a better job than most of the "So Called Smiths" that abound. It was not a waste of time to take my class.

[BigJon]

"Waste of time?" Well, without it, I would never have even started on this sublime adventure, let alone have the benefit of Dave's 20 years of experience in the area.

And what's best, I guess, I wouldn't have some mighty special new friends I have now!

Not talking about you, of course, Dave. Was talking about Felina. ;)

Best,
Jon

[BigJon]

Just got a call from Phil at Glenrock. This pistol is done! The other one (the Hardslide/Caspian) will go into the tanks this week, and both should be back to me next week. 4- to 6-week turnaround time - not bad! Can't wait!

Best,
Jon

[BigEd63]

Sounds good Jon, looking forward to pics and a range report.

[Captain Eagle]

I am very interested in how the blue jobs turn out. Lots of pictures, Big Guy!

[BigJon]

Me too, ED! Captain - I'm really looking forward to seeing the blue job myself. The folks who pointed me to them say that they do quite a bit of work for some top-flight builders you know and who, as you've mentioned, you believe do high-quality work. I was finally able to find one, single link to some photos of another pistol, this one by Bob Rodgers, that has the Glenrock "Custom Satin" finish on it. Here's a link to the thread, and in case folks here aren't logged on there, I'll hotlink the photos directly to this thread.

The link is . . . http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=181787

And here is a photo from that thread showing the finish up close:

http://www.rodgerspistolsmithing.com/NM3.jpg

[Captain Eagle]

I checked out the link and was happy to see the slide stop treatment I have been doing for over 20 years. Nice Job Bob! And Hey, Kewl Blaster, Dude!
i am not flattered.

[BigJon]

I got my local FFL guy together with Glenrock, and this pistol and the Hardslide/Caspian should be reassembled in a few days. The guts are here with me, and the parts that Glenrock blued are en route.

So, the only thing I'm still waiting for are grips, which I just ordered yesterday and then tweaked the order for today. They'll be here in about a month. When they come, I'll do up some photos.

In the meantime, here's a teaser about the grips I'll be putting on my pistol, the one in this thread. They are checkered ivory from Nutmeg Sports just like those in the photo, except Jim at Nutmeg is rounding the edges of mine more than standard to take into account the softer radii and contours I put on the back, bottom and heel of the pistol.

Best,
Jon

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/JHC1%20Completed/JHC1Ivories.jpg

[Captain Eagle]

Hey! Nice grips, Dude!

[RIKA]

Ivories are always prettier if you stain them a little so they aren't so white. I've always liked ivory and stag grips. Good choice.

RIKA

[BigJon]

Back from Bluing. Here's a photo of the pistol, and another of it with it's companion. Better photos to follow once the grips arrive and I spend more time cleaning things up. We're in the home stretch!

Best,
Jon

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/AFTER%20BLUING/DSCN3324.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/AFTER%20BLUING/DSCN3316.jpg

[BigJon]

Done!

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/FINAL/JHC11.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/FINAL/JHC12.jpg

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n169/BigJon3333/REM3%20and%20JHC1/FINAL/DSCN0104.jpg