[nikto]

Papoose, Marlin takedown .22lr autorifle.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/559759593

Counterbore and thread the barrel, yourself, rig up luminous sights, $150, folding stock, $100. $100 worth of 3/4" scope and "see-thru" mount and you can take your time about the luminous sights and the stock. $100 worth of tools and my book, and you can have everything you need to make and mount a silencer if shtf, in about an hour.

This is what's in second place, behind $2000+ worth of shorty AR, silencer, .22 unit, luminous sights, trigger job, scope, folding stock, and that's IF you make the 223 silencer yourself, with $100 spent on a local machine and welding shop, $200 tax to the feds to be legal, etc.

Not one man in 1000 knows enough to benefit from the extra $1500 spent on the AR, for shtf. If you know enough stick to either thick cover or darkness, and have some smarts about how to do things, the silenced Papoose and some subsonic 60 gr Aquila 22 ammo will serve you well. There will be a LOT of other rifles, pistols and ammo to pick up from the dead. I probably wouldn't bother to pick up the shotguns. Just remove their bolts and scatter-discard them. Or maybe wrap them in trash bags and bury them (separate from their bolts) in case you can find some fools who actually want to barter for them. I"d be inclined, tho, to load the shotshells with a triple charge of powder, smashing the pellets together and trying to double that charge, too. Anyone dumb enough to favor a shotgun, post shtf, really shouldn't be in the gene pool.

The shotshells are a source of a primer, lead, and powder, which can be used to load 9mm, or sell them to some sucker later. They are a lot more "cache-able". than the shotguns themselves, for sure.

it's MUCH easier to make (and thread on) a .22lr silencer than a 223 "can", for a fact. One takes an hour and anyone's garage type tools-abilities, the other takes a tig-welder, a lathe, 1-2 hours of skilled labor, along with half a day of your own labor.

 

[Terry G]

If you don't have the skill necessary to master a shotgun, by all means avoid it. Those of us that can tolerate recoil and noise find a shotgun a very useful tool in our battery.

 

[John in AR]

Papoose, Marlin takedown .22lr autorifle.

I have a papoose. It's a neat rifle, but its return to POA after re-assembly is only 'good', not great. If there was a decent barrel-mounted scope mount, it'd be a very different story. (Yes, I could cobble one up; I've done weirder stuff before.)

This is what's in second place, behind $2000+ worth of shorty AR, silencer, .22 unit, luminous sights, trigger job, scope, folding stock, and that's IF you make the 223 silencer yourself...

I don't think I have $2000 in any of my AR's including a commercial-made suppressor, and I have some nice AR's. CMC triggers, leupold scopes, short-throw ambi safeties, commercial suppressor, etc; I don't think I'm at $2k on any of them. One of them (my primary) may be close, but I don't think it's over; and that includes the commercial suppressor cost.

There will be a LOT of other rifles, pistols and ammo to pick up from the dead.

I have to go back to my repeated question of, "where is the historical basis or precedent for this kind of massive, society-wide, shtf". On these boards, we constantly see "the best way" or "the only sure way" to survive something that simply has no basis in the historical record at all.

I probably wouldn't bother to pick up the shotguns. Just remove their bolts and scatter-discard them. Or maybe wrap them in trash bags and bury them (separate from their bolts) in case you can find some fools who actually want to barter for them. I"d be inclined, tho, to load the shotshells with a triple charge of powder, smashing the pellets together and trying to double that charge, too. Anyone dumb enough to favor a shotgun, post shtf, really shouldn't be in the gene pool.

What if all the dead guy had was a shotgun? Would you still destroy it?

I'm not a shotgun guy at ALL, but I don't get this visceral hatred of them and anyone who uses them. Actually kill somebody for picking up an abandoned shotgun and ammo? Seriously? Because that's what you're saying to do with the booby-trapped shells simply because they're shotgun shells.

The shotshells are a source of a primer, lead, and powder, which can be used to load 9mm,

Is there some way to use a 209 primer in a case meant for small pistol primers...?

 

[Terry G]

Would you recommend the Papoose as a "First Gun" for a 10 to 12 year old? I have a reason for asking. Thanks.

 

[John in AR]

Would you recommend the Papoose as a "First Gun" for a 10 to 12 year old? I have a reason for asking. Thanks.

As for weight and compactness, it'd be phenomenal. The only issue is that they'd have to be vigilant about keeping the barrel nut tight. It tends to walk loose eventually if you don't check it every so often; and if it gets even minutely loose, accuracy goes to crap.

They might be overly expensive nowadays; I don't know if they make them anymore or not. I'd seriously consider looking into the marlin 795 or 7000. I have all three of them, and the 7000 is my favorite of the three, but the 795 would probably be better for a kid's first gun. It's lighter, more compact, and has iron sights which the 7000 doesn't. IIRC, I paid $159 for it nib at Dick's Sporting Goods during a grand opening sale. I already had the 7000, and it was such a tackdriver I picked up the 795 as a secondary backup to it. The papoose was the last of the three that I bought, and the main reasons I bought it (used) was because it was kind of 'neat' and shared magazines with the others.

I've considered SBR'ing and suppressing it, but haven't. I came across a picture one time of a papoose that had the stock skeletonized with a pouch made to fit in the open cavity, with the shortened barrel, magazine(s) and rimfire suppressor all fitting inside the pouch, that was itself inside the footprint of the shoulder stock. Awfully neat idea, but never pursued it.

 

[nikto]

the main reason to choose the papoose is the take down feature, which means nothing for a kid's first gun and which introduces issues that you don't need. If the kid in question does not already have bb gun and pellet rifle experience, 10 yo is pretty young. Definitely not without constant supervision, right beside them. Once the "boo-boo" has occurred, you can't bring that bullet back.