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Discussion Starter #1
would someone be so kind as to explain to me the differences between the way a bull barrel and a cone compensator W/standard barrel function.
and why a cone vs. a bull barrel?
been looking into converting one of my .45 project guns and would be rather thank full for the info.

thank you in advance
sean
 

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to my knowledge, there's no change in actual FUNCTION. the barrel cannot have more than at most 5 ozs added to it, and still have reliable function. some get "twitchy" with a 4 oz wt. Depending on the port location, size, angle, and mainly upon the load used, the comp may not offer ANY improvement in muzzle jump over the same amount of plain old muzzlewt added to the barrel. Could you be more precise as to what it is you want to know? Some comps work with a bushing still in the slide, some are added to a cone shaped barrel, which replaces the bushing. something has to fill the gap between the .60" OD barrel and the .80" ID of the slide, ya know.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
lol
let me get some links to pics to explain what i want to know

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=5011&title=1911+AUTO+MATCH-GRADE+BARREL


http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/st...6133&title=1911+AUTO+FIVE+CHAMBER+COMPENSATOR

http://egw-guns.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=34_24

http://egw-guns.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34_24&products_id=47

i think the last one answered part of my question. if i got it right the cone adapter allows the use of a standard threaded barrel wher a bull barrel would have been used. also allowing a compensator to be added and swapped without the barrel having to be refit or the comp requiring fitting (rather atractive idea)


i wish to use this comp in full profile with
http://egw-guns.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=57&products_id=108

this barrel
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=5011&title=1911+AUTO+MATCH-GRADE+BARREL

threaded and ramped (in order to provide full support)
yes i know this will require machining of frame to fit ramped barrel (have milling machine here)
have never fit a barrel to a slide before (bushing to barrel yes, bushing to slide yes)

the intent here is to make a high powered 1911 hunting pistol. for use on boar, and whitetails. and perhaps to ward off bitey scratchy critters. we have too many mountain lions here of late. i like the 1911 platform but do not like the LAR pistols so that leaves me with .460 rowland, 45super, .400 corbon, 10mm, maybe 9x25 dillon.

of these the .460 and 10mm(full power in 10mm) seem the most practical to me. with .45super coming in close behind(but don't like the idea of .45acp size cases that could find thier way into one of my other pistols)

anyhow cheers and thank you again for any additional input in advance.
sean
 

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yes, .460 is far more practical than 10mm, even if you AINT already got a .45, because of the price of practice components, mags, etc. However, with standard bullets, the recoil of either one is pretty severe, especially if you want penetration. My answer was the hollowbased, 90 gr .45 swc, at 2100 fps in a lw Commander. 880 ft lbs, LOTS of penetration, no more recoil than plus P 185 gr .45's. Which is pretty serious, actually, in a 7.8", 28 oz gun. That's why I decided upon the Defender length slide, a Commander length barrel, and a 4 oz muzzlewt on the exposed 1" of barrel.

Muzzlewt is made from a chunk of slide, welded to the barrel sleeve (threaded and silver soldered to the barrel) front sight on the muzzlewt. Lead in the area of the wt where spring used to be. Practice mostly with 9mm, but enough .45's to make handling this little pussycat no big deal. Have to head-shoot big critters anyway, and many of their "charges" are just bluffs, or will veer off or stop at a round over their heads (at 30 ft). If you WOUND them, though, it's ON, so don't fire for blood beyond 20 ft or so. They are hitting 50 fps, so you only get 1/2 a second in which to brain the critter. So best have .17 second splits, and 3-4 tries at the brain, not the .50 second splits of the .50 desert eagle, or the 1 full second splits of the .454 SA revolver. :)

most mountain lions aint very big, so the 70 gr Split Nose, pre-frag, at 2300 fps, might be a better bet, chest hits, because they are very sneaky and very fast. Regardless of where you are, men are by FAR the more common and the more dangerous threats, even if they DON'T have guns.
 

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Never saw any point in lugging around a loaded wt of 49 ozs when I could do BETTER with 31 ozs. :) ever fire a comped gun and hot loads down by your hip? DON'T. likely to blind you.
 

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even 135 grs at 1700 fps with the 10mm, 5" barrel, is 23.5 factor recoil, same as 230 grs at 1000 fps. 160 gr swc, at 1500 fps in the 460, is 24 factor, pretty vicious. 230 grs at 1350 in the 460 is out of the question, for fast repeat hits. 32 factor recoil, TWICE the recoil of 160 grs at 1000 fps., 200 grs at 800 fps, in the same size and wt gun, forget it.
 

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the intent here is to make a high powered 1911 hunting pistol. for use on boar, and whitetails. and perhaps to ward off bitey scratchy critters. we have too many mountain lions here of late. i like the 1911 platform but do not like the LAR pistols so that leaves me with .460 rowland, 45super, .400 corbon, 10mm, maybe 9x25 dillon.

of these the .460 and 10mm(full power in 10mm) seem the most practical to me. with .45super coming in close behind(but don't like the idea of .45acp size cases that could find thier way into one of my other pistols)

[/QUOTE]


az for onr i think you have a good idea for cat protection, but mountian lions are not hard to kill or stop a standard 45 auto with hardball will do a more than adaquit job on them. i have killed a number of them most with a 22 mag. they go down fast and easy. if you were having a black bear problem i mite choose a 10mm or more. the 10mm will give you ballistics cloes to a 41 mag. despite what some of the people have told me i don't find it more than a little uncomfortable to shoot. this is if your going to shoot it a lot. when you in crease the power of browings original design though you mite find that with the increased slide speed and power the pistol will have a tendency to crack frames. i have 2 ten's don't shoot them a lot but they will kill the shit out of a hog. lol az
 

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I've seen several mountain lions tear the CRAP out of dogs after being hit with 357 Mag jhp's. .45 ball won't reliably stop a **** or a chuck with a chest. Anyone can prove that to themselves. You used a .22 mag RIFLE, shot some treed cats (if your'e not just outright LYING, which is more likely) and waited 30+ seconds for them to fall out of the tree.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
ok....let's try to keep this NOT a PISSING CONTEST please.
you both have valid points here. though i do not subdscribe to the light super fast bullet theory any longer (it does do ineresting things on smaller critters though). i tend to prefer big heavy bullets. big heavy fast bullets are even better in my opinion. not saying that light bullets won't work but i think that for my intended purpose heavier and expanding would be better.

i have never been recoil sensitive. what i currently carry in bitey scratchy critter country is a model 29 Lew Horten. 3" barrel. I'm not the fastest with it but i am able to get the 1st shot where i want it in whats fast enough for my liking. follow ups take a little time as the recoil is sharp (not really heavy funny how a shorter barrel seemed to reduce muzzle climb)

i am much faster and more comfortable with 1911's. they are ergonomically more suited to me (or vice versa) the compensator i'm looking at using should with longer burning powders produce quite a bit of down force. this should increase the barrels lock up time and actually tighten it momentarily(i think if i got my physics right) so i believe it is possible to get a reasonable life out of this weapon.

it will create a very loud report (my Springfield P9 already does this)
as well as more flash. what i found with the P9 was slower powders and more of them actually reduced recoil and slide speed causing faster follow ups with less deviation of point of impact.

but this is getting away from the origanal question of will
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=5011&title=1911+AUTO+MATCH-GRADE+BARREL
this work with
http://egw-guns.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=57&products_id=108
this
and what would be entailed in fitting it to a stock GI type 1911.

i'm thinking the barrel bushing goes away.
i'm thinking that the barrel will require fitting to the slide.
as will the comp.

other things.
yes new sights will be going on it
same for a beaver tail safety.
and most of the internals will be replaced.
and a heavier recoil spring will be added as the loads indicate the need (recoil springs are a two edged sword though as you increase the recoil spring rate the slide takes a beating going foward.

the slide frame ect will not be stainless as i place no trust in stainless for high pressure use (let's face it stainless is softer and less tough but doesn't rust)

and i intend to do all the work myself. this just happens to be something i do not have extensive expiriance with never even held a cone compensated pistol before.

sean
 

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Discussion Starter #10
oh and thank you both for your help so far, and the interest you have shown that is what makes forums like this great.

sean :)
 

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You need to TIME some raise and hits and repeat hits with .44. With loads that have enough more power than the .45 ACP to matter any, the shorter .44's have nothing LIKE the repeat hit speed of the 1911. 3x as slow is about par, in fact. Chest hits with 12 ga slugs often don't stop 100 lb deer, so there's ZERO reason to "think" that a chest hit with .44, .460, .500 smith, etc, is going to stop a big predator. wont happen, except by pure luck. Put a .460 swc thru both his lungs, and no critter is going far (less than 200m). Put it thru his heart, and he won't make it more than 100m, and probably less than 50m.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ok enough dancing around initial question.
i'll go ask somewhere else. all i wanted to know was how to do what i wanted.
not how fast i needed to shoot or anything else like that....it's great to add that in if you think it valid but w/ out the info i required it's pretty much pointless

thanks anyhow
sean
 

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223 fan said:
you said you found the info on some gunsmithing site, so what's your problem?
The problem is that your responses get so convuluted nobody know's what your talking about. I start a thread about SKS's and you hijack the thread and start talking about homemade silincers. Someone ask's a question about carry guns and all of sudden you start a treatise on .460 Rowlands. Stick to the subject.
 

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It sounds like an interesting project Sean. Please keep us advised if you decide to go along with it.

RIKA
 
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