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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
m,they are GOING to hit you within 2 seconds of spotting you, or the second one is going to do so,within 2 seconds of your firing the first shot(and maybe as swiftly as one second afterward,especially if he has a shotgun) He will at least be firing at you, and that DOES effect your ability to hit him. Regardless of how you'd LIKE to kid yourself about how "steely-nerved"you will be while under fire.

So, do you toss away your Scout Rifle (ruining the scope) and draw your pistol, taking at LEAST 3 seconds do hit both men,and probably more like 10 seconds, empty the mag,and NEVER hit either one, ordo you take2.5 seconds to raise the Scout and hit both of them? One second for the first one, 1.5 seconds (probably more like 2 full seconds, to TRY to hit the second one. :)
 

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Remember that once you fire on, much less hit target #1, target #2's firing will be affected by YOU shooting at him as much, or more, than his firing at you affects your shooting.

No one is talking about using a pistol as a primary weapon in SHTF, or using it at all if the rifle is IN HAND. All you're doing is making a straw man argument.
 

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Whats the point on this post

These little "what-if" mental masterbaters don't prove or disprove anything.

There is no accounting for what folks will do when the shooting starts, none.

My thought is though, why would they pop up at all and not just shoot you from cover?

Two men get the drop on you at that kind of range with those intensions you better not be buying any green bannanas. Unless you are switched on to the max (which you obviously aren't or they woulded be there now would they?) you aren't going to react in time to do much about it the two seconds.

Teuf,
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
POINT is, bolt actions SUCK, for the

VERY common thing of just "bumping into" people, particularly in storms, fog, snow, or darkness, or thick cover, or around corners in towns. It DOES happen, pretty much constantly. So why BOTHER with bolt action? It's a HORRIBLE handicap. Cooper is flat fos about it "making you a citizen, rather than a subject". THAT is a reference to COMBAT, your ability to RESIST tyranny. The Scout Rifle lacks long range potential, because it's a 308, 18" barrel, and its forward mounted, low magnification scope just doesnt hack it for such work. So it's a TOY, really, for taking big animals under sporting conditions, and the TIME restrictions of a legal hunting season, and the condition of wanting to take a bragging rights, trophy male. The post has NOTHING to do with the pistol, actually. It merely points out how STUPID guys are to spend $2500 on a Steyr Scout, and how fos Jeff is about the rifle's "potential". A canned CAR, scope, and .22 unit is and always will be at LEAST 10x an effective tool for the survivalist and freedom fighter that a Scout Rifle will ever be, and 5x as much as ANY bolt action could ever be.
 

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Re: Whats the point on this post

Teufelhund said:
These little "what-if" mental masterbaters don't prove or disprove anything.
What if, mental masterbaters -- too funny, and too true!

There is no accounting for what folks will do when the shooting starts, none.
I saw a big, two fisted, hardcore man, on the verge of being a bully, crawl under cover, and whimper like a child, when the shooting started.

My thought is though, why would they pop up at all and not just shoot you from cover?

Two men get the drop on you at that kind of range with those intensions you better not be buying any green bannanas. Unless you are switched on to the max (which you obviously aren't or they woulded be there now would they?) you aren't going to react in time to do much about it the two seconds.

Teuf,
Things seem to just pop into John Melvin Davis's mind without rhyme or reason.

The reason why John Melvin Davis postulates these ridiculous, what if scenarios, is because of his lack of meaningful experience, and his RAMBUTT, not rambo, way of thinking. The only things Davis has done, is read are old issues of Guns & Ammo, and Soldier of Foreskin magazines.

Bill
 
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Re: POINT is, bolt actions SUCK, for the

andy said:
VERY common thing of just "bumping into" people, particularly in storms, fog, snow, or darkness, or thick cover, or around corners in towns. It DOES happen, pretty much constantly. So why BOTHER with bolt action? It's a HORRIBLE handicap. Cooper is flat fos about it "making you a citizen, rather than a subject". THAT is a reference to COMBAT, your ability to RESIST tyranny. The Scout Rifle lacks long range potential, because it's a 308, 18" barrel, and its forward mounted, low magnification scope just doesnt hack it for such work. So it's a TOY, really, for taking big animals under sporting conditions, and the TIME restrictions of a legal hunting season, and the condition of wanting to take a bragging rights, trophy male. The post has NOTHING to do with the pistol, actually. It merely points out how STUPID guys are to spend $2500 on a Steyr Scout, and how fos Jeff is about the rifle's "potential". A canned CAR, scope, and .22 unit is and always will be at LEAST 10x an effective tool for the survivalist and freedom fighter that a Scout Rifle will ever be, and 5x as much as ANY bolt action could ever be.
What a crock of crap this mental, masterbatory, post is.

Cooper is full of sh!t? A man that has faced combat in two wars. A fos comment, by an inexperienced, sociopathic, pos mad man, like John Melvin Davis.

Nobody will listen to you TARD, because of your proven, inability to reasonably think, like a normal man.

Bill
 

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Why didn't you just say we where discussing "Scout" rifles



The bolt action scouts are light and make outstanding general purpose hunting rifles IMO. They do have to take a back seat to auto-rifles for SHTF use, though not too far back. If I had nothing but a Glock and one of our bolt action scout rifles I wouldn't feel helpless

The forward scope mounted M1A is an outstanding general pupose rifle when a 7.62 rifle is needed, it does many things well.

I enjoy reading Coopers writings and respect his experience, but I don't agree with everything that comes from his mouth and slips off his pen.



Teuf,
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
and WHEN is THAT, hmm? Jeff's been

senile for MANY years now, and never did have all that good a grasp of what's what for civilian pistol carry. all this "photgrapher's vest" bs, so you could carry a belt rig in hot weather, and leaving the coat OPEN (freezing-soaking you in bad weather, letting the coat blow open and gun be SEEN, was and always will be stupid on the face of it. So is the "little finger brush" method of "clearing" the coat, which is all he's EVER taught. Anyone with a lick of sense uses the weak hand to clear the concealment garment, because it's a LOT more reliable, with the sort of clothes normally worn. with a navel rig and T shirt, it's also FASTER than the FBI method.

He's fos about .45 ball being so "effective" as a manstopper, and he USED to ADMIT the need for jhp's, for HUNTING (with the .38 super) He claimed that the 1300 fps Super had a "trajectory advantage" over the .45. Well, not if you loaded a 140 gr swc (cast the 200 gr mold, using pewter or non lead solder) at 1300 fps it doesn't. :) WHO, under field conditions, shoots an iron sighted 1911 well enough to DETECT any trajectory advantage between a 185 gr, 1100 fps .45, and a 1400 fps 38 super, hmm? The diff is like 2" at 75 yds. Unless you can shoot 3" groups out there, you CAN'T detect any velocity-trajectory "advantage". So he was full of it, about BASIC gun info, even 40 years ago.

He claimed a Star BKS had a shorter reach to the trigger than does a 1911. A simple check with a caliper proves that to be bs. It's the same "reach" as a LONG trigger in a 1911, and the star's reach is LONGER than the 1911 with the SHORT trigger installed (and a flat mainspring housing)
 

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Re: and WHEN is THAT, hmm? Jeff's been

andy said:
senile for MANY years now, and never did have all that good a grasp of what's what for civilian pistol carry. all this "photgrapher's vest" bs, so you could carry a belt rig in hot weather, and leaving the coat OPEN (freezing-soaking you in bad weather, letting the coat blow open and gun be SEEN, was and always will be stupid on the face of it. So is the "little finger brush" method of "clearing" the coat, which is all he's EVER taught. Anyone with a lick of sense uses the weak hand to clear the concealment garment, because it's a LOT more reliable, with the sort of clothes normally worn. with a navel rig and T shirt, it's also FASTER than the FBI method.

He's fos about .45 ball being so "effective" as a manstopper, and he USED to ADMIT the need for jhp's, for HUNTING (with the .38 super) He claimed that the 1300 fps Super had a "trajectory advantage" over the .45. Well, not if you loaded a 140 gr swc (cast the 200 gr mold, using pewter or non lead solder) at 1300 fps it doesn't. :) WHO, under field conditions, shoots an iron sighted 1911 well enough to DETECT any trajectory advantage between a 185 gr, 1100 fps .45, and a 1400 fps 38 super, hmm? The diff is like 2" at 75 yds. Unless you can shoot 3" groups out there, you CAN'T detect any velocity-trajectory "advantage". So he was full of it, about BASIC gun info, even 40 years ago.

He claimed a Star BKS had a shorter reach to the trigger than does a 1911. A simple check with a caliper proves that to be bs. It's the same "reach" as a LONG trigger in a 1911, and the star's reach is LONGER than the 1911 with the SHORT trigger installed (and a flat mainspring housing)

Talking about somebody thats senile, you should listen to yourself TARD.

Bill
 
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m,they are GOING to hit you within 2 seconds of spotting you, or the second one is going to do so,within 2 seconds of your firing the first shot(and maybe as swiftly as one second afterward,especially if he has a shotgun) He will at least be firing at you, and that DOES effect your ability to hit him. Regardless of how you'd LIKE to kid yourself about how "steely-nerved"you will be while under fire.

So, do you toss away your Scout Rifle (ruining the scope) and draw your pistol, taking at LEAST 3 seconds do hit both men,and probably more like 10 seconds, empty the mag,and NEVER hit either one, ordo you take2.5 seconds to raise the Scout and hit both of them? One second for the first one, 1.5 seconds (probably more like 2 full seconds, to TRY to hit the second one. :)
Transitioning to a pistol is simply letting go of the rifle, letting it drop against your body and drawing your pistol and using it. Only an idiot doesn't know how to use a sling in a combat situation. Nobody is throwing away their rifle. Even a bolt action can be carried with a combat sling. You really don't know that much about anything.

You continually come up with scenarios that are stupid. You clearly have no experience at any of the things you post. You also seem to have a habit of pushing your deficiencies on everyone else.

I find it hilarious that you quote Cooper when you think it helps you and then call him senile in the same thread when you realize it doesn't. You are special.

My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
 

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POINT is, bolt actions SUCK, for the

VERY common thing of just "bumping into" people, particularly in storms, fog, snow, or darkness, or thick cover
, or around corners in towns. It DOES happen, pretty much constantly. So why BOTHER with bolt action? It's a HORRIBLE handicap. Cooper is flat fos about it "making you a citizen, rather than a subject". THAT is a reference to COMBAT, your ability to RESIST tyranny. The Scout Rifle lacks long range potential, because it's a 308, 18" barrel, and its forward mounted, low magnification scope just doesnt hack it for such work. So it's a TOY, really, for taking big animals under sporting conditions, and the TIME restrictions of a legal hunting season, and the condition of wanting to take a bragging rights, trophy male. The post has NOTHING to do with the pistol, actually. It merely points out how STUPID guys are to spend $2500 on a Steyr Scout, and how fos Jeff is about the rifle's "potential". A canned CAR, scope, and .22 unit is and always will be at LEAST 10x an effective tool for the survivalist and freedom fighter that a Scout Rifle will ever be, and 5x as much as ANY bolt action could ever be.
How common is it? I thought the point was to be away from everyone? I frequently go into areas where I don't see another human being for the entire trip. You should try hunting out of a backpack sometime. But then again, you are suffering from a number of self-proclaimed conditions that make that impossible for you. Never mind the fact you don't hunt, and lack the wilderness skills to do so.

If SHTF, I will use my maps to find areas as far from trails, roads, towns, etc as possible. I will seek very rough terrain, the kind where you really can't approach silently or without crossing a lot of open spaces. Using a map gives me the advantage of identifying these places and figuring out the best routes to avoid other people.
 

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But Melvin an initiated member of the Fuq'awe Tribe and given the name of Spewing Bull don't need no stinking maps or compasses.

He's going to be a perpetual hunter gatherer and pillager. And wander around in the dark; in more ways than one it seems
 

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I was trying to figure out where the scout rifle reference was coming from, out of the blue like this:
m,they are GOING to hit you within 2 seconds of spotting you, or the second one is going to do so,within 2 seconds of your firing the first shot(and maybe as swiftly as one second afterward,especially if he has a shotgun) He will at least be firing at you, and that DOES effect your ability to hit him. Regardless of how you'd LIKE to kid yourself about how "steely-nerved"you will be while under fire.

So, do you toss away your Scout Rifle (ruining the scope) and draw your pistol, taking at LEAST 3 seconds do hit both men,and probably more like 10 seconds, empty the mag,and NEVER hit either one, ordo you take2.5 seconds to raise the Scout and hit both of them? One second for the first one, 1.5 seconds (probably more like 2 full seconds, to TRY to hit the second one. :)
So doing a quick search on 'scout', came up with this post of mine, from the day before this thread was started:
Accepting that we're discussing the premise here, and not what I might expect shtf to actually bring about...

My far-and-away favorite defensive longarm is my CAR-15. But if it's "lifetime" and "no cleaning supplies", the AR platform just frankly won't suffice.

If I didn't have to worry about carrying the ammo, my choice would likely (surprisingly) be my "scouterized" Weatherby carbine in .308 Winchester. Lightweight, fast sight acquisition, and scout scope is mounted on a Weaver rail, that would also allow for back-up iron sights. (Don't have those on it now.)

Second long arm choice would (again, surprised me) likely be my little lever action in .357 mag. Small, light, can take any game up to black bear, better rate of fire than the .308 bolt-action, higher capacity, and weighs less.

If not limited to what I now own, don't know. I'd likely avoid most autos, just due to the "no cleaning supplies", etc. Maybe the lever-action approach again, but this time in a stainless .454 Casull; half the ammo in .454, the other half in .45LC.

Just off the top of my head... Not really worth arguing about. (Although someone likely will...)
(Sure would be handy if a logic train even tried to stay on track...)
 
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