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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so it's LUCK. That's a silly thing to be attempting. If shtf, you'd better not fire unless you HAVE to hit, and if you have to hit, best not fire under conditions that cause you to miss at ALL in practice. When you are under fire, without ear protection, you will miss a lot at ranges where you never miss in practice.

After at most 2 seconds after your first shot, anyone who's dangerous to you is not going to be holding STILL, offering a fully exposed target to your fire. You AINT hitting dodging men, or bobbing heads(around cover) with more than half your shots, at 200m, even with ear muffs and nobody trying to kill you.. When you are ducking incoming fire ,you will miss such targets a LOT at 100m. So when you "snipe" at some group of guys, beyond about 200m, you'll get ONE hit, and that's all. Way too often for your health, the only guy that you can see will just be a scout for 20 more that you don't see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
A 10" group, size of man's chest, can mean ALL misses

if the group is centered 10" off to the side of the man. That's COMMON for shooting beyond 300m, with iron sights, and with 308 ball ammo. Why do you THINK that they have wind flags,spotter scopes, and spotter shots, for rifle shooting at longer ranges, hmm? :)

Without the silly shooting glove, you CAN'T use a tight shooting sling. Trying it will cut your hand. Without the silly shooting jacket, you will have a LOT more "wiggle" from your muscles and your breathing. So just forget the sling bs, and use the backpack as a rifle rest from sitting, and the bipod from prone. Both are BIG aids to hitting multiple targets,in minimal time, and for hitting movers as well, and for hitting heads that are only exposed for 1-2 seconds, around cover.

shtf, you'll HAVE to have the backpack, anyway, and modern harness connectors let you shed the pack in 4 secs flat,any way. You get the chest strap with one hand, the hip strap with the other, letting the rifle just hang on its assault sling.You get the rifle's sling off of you, then use the weak arm to get rid of that side of the harness, then switch the rifle into the other hand, and shed the strong side of the harness.

Prone USUALLY means that you either can't see the targets,or your bullets strike vegetation on the way to the targets (probably causing a miss at longer ranges) So, quite often, sitting with the backpack is the steadiest firing position that you can contrive. You should practice it.
 

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20" groups at 500yards?
:laugh01: :laugh01: :laugh01: :laugh01: :laugh01: :laugh01: :laugh01:

No wonder you only want to take shots at arms length distances.

The rest of your scenerario is proven to be false by peoples real experiences under real fire, of which you have none.

Here's a tip johnny, people shoot back and many of the forget to take cover and will even stand still to shoot at you. That's real life, not your fantasy world, but then again you'd know this to be true if you had any real world experiences.

If they do run and dodge guess what? They aren't likely to make a shot that's likely to come anywhere near you so you can pause and take time to line up the shot that hit's them COM and grounds them for good.
 

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You have obviously never shot a Service conditions match, have you? The sling is frequently employed. Shooting gloves are not allowed in Service matches in Canada.

3.06 Slings



(1) Slings need not be on the firearm in either individual or team competitions unless stated in the match conditions.



(2) The sling may be either attached to the front sling swivel and used as a single point sling, or attached to both sling swivels as a two-point sling. The sling may be looped around the fore stock and used as a single or a two-point sling.



(3) Slings must be of issue pattern or equivalent for the rifle in question. Slings normally used in target rifle competitions are not permitted.



(4) The sling may be placed around one arm and/or wrist but not around any other part of the competitor’s body.



(5) No padding or weight of any kind will be used on the sling.



Live the reality, screw the fantasy!
 

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"Here's a tip johnny, people shoot back and many of the forget to take cover and will even stand still to shoot at you. That's real life, not your fantasy world, but then again you'd know this to be true if you had any real world experiences."

Absolutely right! I've seen it happen many times.
 

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polesmoker said:
He's the twit that thinks people come running to the sound of gunfire.

Experience shows that if they run, they run away.
Like brave Sir Robin?

Bravely bold Sir Robin, rode forth from Camelot.
He was not afraid to die, o Brave Sir Robin.
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways.
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin!
He was not in the least bit scared to be mashed into a pulp,
Or to have his eyes gouged out, and his elbows broken.
To have his kneecaps split, and his body burned away,
And his limbs all hacked and mangled, brave Sir Robin!
His head smashed in and his heart cut out,
And his liver removed and his bowels unplugged,
And his nostrils ripped and his bottom burned off,
And his balls...

...

MINSTREL (singing): Bravely ran away away
ROBIN: I didn't!
MINSTREL (singing): When danger reared its ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled
ROBIN: No!
MINSTREL (singing): Yes Brave Sir Robin turned about
ROBIN: I didn't!
MINSTREL (singing): And gallantly he chickened out
Bravely taking to his feet
ROBIN: I never did!
MINSTREL (singing): He beat a very brave retreat
ROBIN: Oh, lie!
MINSTREL (singing): Bravest of the brave Sir Robin
ROBIN: I never!
 

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20 inch groups at 500 yards comes out to 4 moa. What's gunkid using, an AK-47? Oh, that's right, his fantacy 11" CAR that barely makes 2700 fps with a 55gr bullet. I can see the drop rate might cause you to miss quite a bit at 500. That's presuming gunkid's bad eye sight could see 500 yards. Plus the short sight radius and light weight of the CAR can't help either.

20" group at 500 sounds about right for gunkid's skill level.
 

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20 " Groups at 500 yards. Okay, I do wear glasses now, and I probably couldn't hump a rucksack as far as I used to , but 500 yards from a rest with any decent battle rifle? I don't want to get creamed again, but I'm pretty sure I could do it with a .303 Enfield, and certainly with an M-14. Where did John- boy train? In the cub scouts? No way you would do it with a 10" CAR -15, and even with a full size M-16A2 you would be pushing it, though possible. Back in the war day's, (It seems so long ago it might have been the civil war) to qualify as marksman, the lowest qualifying score, you needed to knock down a 3/4 size silhouette twice out of ten shots at 400 METERS, not yards. That was with an M-14. The M-16 qualifier was 325 Meters. As I recall, only 2 men of my 149 man company didn't qualify, and they were interior decorator material, not soldiers.
 
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