shoot them thru the chest with the "solid" version of the Winchester super x, they "hang" in the tree, just like they often do with .22lr solids. Shoot them in the chest with the CCI 32 gr, 2400 fps hp, tho and they collapse instantly. Chucks and *****, a much greater difference in results is seen. Proper USE of a few hundred ft lbs can make a tremendous difference on flesh and blood.