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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've alway's liked rimfires, I learned how to shoot with a lever action Marlin 57, so I thought I would do a little test using a Ruger .22 MKII 6 7/8", a Ruger three screw Single-Six 6 1/2" in .22 WRM, and a Taurus 5" in .17 HRM. Ranges were 50 feet, 20 yards, and 25 yards. I shot on a five inch Birchwood-Casey target. At 50 feet all were more than adequate to harvest squirrels and cottontails. At 20 yards the .22's groups opened up a little, but still were plenty accurate enough. At 25 yards the MKII was plunking them right in there, the .22WMR was "iffy". The .17HRM was grouping tight as ever. A caveat on this. The MKII and Taurus had good adjustable sights, while the single-six had fixed, rather rough sights. I had shot game with both .22's and didn't like the way .22 WRM tore up meat, so I alway's tried to stick to head shots. I had, until a week or so ago, never shot game with a .17HRM. Now one thing I'm not going to run out of is grey squirrels. My wife has 9 bird feeders in our back woods, and the squirrel love them. At one point I counted 37 in a 50 yard square area. So I decided to try out the .17 and get myself some barbecued squirrel sandwiches in the bargain. I probably didn't walk thirty yards until a big fat grey was chittering at me from an oak tree. Fourty feet, no more than that, but I made a bad shot and caught him in the left foreleg. The bullet traveled upward into his head and he dropped like a rock. The bullet impact was devastating. This round will definitely do a number on small game. I'm not going to give up my .22's, but if Ruger ever fields a reliable 10/.17HRM, I'm buying one. Ammunition used was Remington .22LR 36 Grain HP Golden Bullet, .22 WRM Winchester 40 Grain HP, and .17 HRM CCI 17 Grain HP.
 

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I've never tried the 22mag or the .17 because of ammo expense and the damage they do to game. The Mark 2 and S&W Mod 18 do very well. Still though, perhaps I'm missing something. Will actively look for a chance to shoot the .17 as it seems to be the better choice. It would work well for those far off shots at rabbits up at the lease.

Thanks for the range report.

RIKA
 

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Terry G said:
At 20 yards the .22's groups opened up a little, but still were plenty accurate enough. At 25 yards the MKII was plunking them right in there, the .22WMR was "iffy".
I've found that in all my Ruger and Heritage revolvers with the mag cylinder, a .22WRF cartridge gives better grouping/accuracy than the .22WMR. Also, in the shorter barrels of the revolver, the WRF's (45 grain) velocity isn't too much below the WMR's (40 grain). If you can find some WRF's, it might be worth a try.

DC
 

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.22 mag's a joke, especially in a pistol. It has less power than the makarov, its a silly revolver, and its ammo costs twice what the 9x18 ammo costs. So why bother with the silly thing? If 22lr aint ENOUGH, power and range and penetration, 223 aint too MUCH, either. There's no subsonic load for the .22 mag, the barrels aint threded, the .22 mag autorifles aint concealable or easy to clean in the field. They lack night sights (a $300 custom job to add them) cost almost as much as an AR-15, lack flashhider, the ammo costs MORE than does Wolf 223, they lack 30 rd mags, a darknened non-reflective, corrosion proof finish. .22 mag's power is wasted on most small game, and it's not nearly enough for reliably stopping a deer, unless you brain it, in which case the .22lr works, too. You are 100x as likely to find 22lr ammo after shtf than .22 mag, 10x as likely to find 223 ammo. There's no deep penetrator, match or tracer rds for the .22 mag. All in all, the .22 mag is so inferior to the CAR-15 and .22 unit as to make it a joke for shtf use. or even "normal times' defense, poaching, match shooting, or just plinking. 20c a shot makes it pretty silly choice, since it's too expensive to plink with, and it lacks enough power to do much else. A 9mm High Point carbine has more power, by far, if you load it with 90 gr Corbon. It has 600 ft lbs with such a load, 1700 fps. I have no idea whether or not its reliable or durable, but it's about half the price of a .22 mag auto, and the 9mm ammo is about half the price of 22 mag rimfire ammo.
 

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I know of several other experienced hunters that swear by their .17HMR rifles, especially if you are hunting for pelts. It'll drop game better than a .22LR at double the range.

The round will blow a hole in a stop sign at 175 yards. Can't do that with a .22LR. IMHO, the .17HMR is a seriously better round that it's parent cartridge, the .22mag.

I've been thinking about a .17HMR as a pot hunting round for high country backpacking trips, like in the Sierras. The ammo doesn't weight any more than does the .22LR, it's way more potent, and has a longer range. You can get a small, accurate rifle in the round (Rouge River Chipmunk) that weighs in at about 2.5lbs.

Since you're talking .22LR weights, carrying a hundred rounds or so for it is no big deal for backpacking.



Not every activity involves 'shtf' but 'shtf' can come in many forms, such as being in some isolated canyon area in the Sierras and the passes get snowed in or some other situation where you have to hunt and fish to extend your food supply.

In a situation like that, what you have is what you bring with you and a .17HMR will do the job a lot better than a .22LR. If you only have a hundred rounds or so on you, then the cost of the ammo vs .22LR becomes a small matter when it's utility is taken into account.
 

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So what? Most backpacking aint done in LEGAL hunting-season. Lots of places you'd like to hike, you'd better NOT get-seen carrying a rifle, too. Big waste of money. Carry a quiet, accurate, 18 oz Smith 2214 instead. The wt you save over the rifle will let you ALSO carry a Kahr PM9. Of course, a cheapskate like you will just pack the Makarov. It suits you.
 

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use the full metal patch 223 Hornady bullet, and you will have LOTS more reach and stopping power, and not have to waste $300 on another worthless "sport only" rifle and scope, $50 on a trigger job, $50 and time wasted on ammo and zeroing the pos, etc, etc, etc.
 

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andy said:
So what? Most backpacking aint done in LEGAL hunting-season. Lots of places you'd like to hike, you'd better NOT get-seen carrying a rifle, too. Big waste of money. Carry a quiet, accurate, 18 oz Smith 2214 instead. The wt you save over the rifle will let you ALSO carry a Kahr PM9. Of course, a cheapskate like you will just pack the Makarov. It suits you.
Cheapskate? Like you have a lot of room to talk, oh great promoter of the Star BM and the HP 22....

My weapons are better than yours, better quality which usually means more expensive. The same goes for my backpacking gear which you really don't have any of to begin with.

A Chipmunk can stash inside a pack. Besides, when hunting, the accuracy and extended reach of a rifle can really make a difference.

As for the .223, I've been looking into the best way to make a bare bones, stripped down .223 rifle and maybe use subcaliber adapters for .22LR.

You have no idea about how isolated you can get in the Sierras, do you?

Actually, when I backpack, I'll bring differnt weapons from time to time. One of my favorites for backpacking is a stainless, 4-3/4" MkII with 200 rounds of Stinger and 100 rounds of CB Long.

andy said:
use the full metal patch 223 Hornady bullet, and you will have LOTS more reach and stopping power, and not have to waste $300 on another worthless "sport only" rifle and scope, $50 on a trigger job, $50 and time wasted on ammo and zeroing the pos, etc, etc, etc.
A Chipmunk with a synthetic stock is $150 and you'll have a hard time finding a rifle in .223 that weighs only 2.5lbs. The Chipmunk trigger is fine as it is and any tweaking is no rocket science. The term 'gunsmith' is often as over rated as 'auto mechanic' is nowadays.

You're bitching about a $150 possibly life saving rifle for remote trips yet you're calling others 'cheapskate'?
 

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I LIVE in the sierras, dumbass.:) Yeah, go check OUT the price of a LaFrance Star "nova", clown, and TELL me it's cheap. Check out having a smith build you a 460 on an alloy frame, with a muzzle wt, spare slide in ACP, and a chopped Colt .22 unit, tell me THAT's cheap, too, ignoramus. :) What I put-out for cheapskates like you to consider, and what I'd smith for myself are two VERY different things, dumbass.
 

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life saving rifle my ASS. You are the one who CLAIMS to be able to live off of game you take with ROCKS and a slingshot, remember? The 2214 pistol has 3x the effective range of BUCKSHOT and a slingshot, 10x the effective range of a slingshot with rocks. Bser.
 

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andy said:
I LIVE in the sierras, dumbass.:) Yeah, go check OUT the price of a LaFrance Star "nova", clown, and TELL me it's cheap. Check out having a smith build you a 460 on an alloy frame, with a muzzle wt, spare slide in ACP, and a chopped Colt .22 unit, tell me THAT's cheap, too, ignoramus. :) What I put-out for cheapskates like you to consider, and what I'd smith for myself are two VERY different things, dumbass.
Clown?

You're the clown that needs to learn to read a map. HINT: You don't live in the Sierras, you live in the Rockies. Pagosa Springs is in Colorado and the Sierras are in California. Actually the mountains near you are a finger of the Rocky Mountains called the San Juan Mountains.

Maps...... what a novel concept, huh?

You, however, could live on the moon and still not know how harsh it is because you never get off of the county maintained road.

As for those other weapons, you don't have any of those. I talk about what I ACTUALLY have on hand, not what I you might have read about in a gun magazine and think it's cool with no real life experience to base it on.

Yet, you claim these 'expensive' weapons (the shorty S&W .22 is shit BTW, when compared to the Ruger as a backcountry weapon), yet you bitch about the cost of a $150 rifle and a few bucks in ammo.
 

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Now thats impressive, Gunkid doesn't even know where he lives!!!! :laugh01: :laugh01: :laugh01: :laugh01: :laugh01: If the balloon ever goes up gunkid, you won't last the first day.
 

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Terry, the .17 HRM does a LOT of damage to small game. If you just want to kill them, it's fine, if you want to eat, too, be sure to go for a brainer.

Me, I think I'll stick with the .22s for rimfires, but it's personal preference, any will do if you can hit your target.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I don't kill anything just to kill it, with the exception of skunks or obviouisly diseased animals. Your right about the .17HRM. That tiny 17 Grainer is SMOKING. I think a nice Ruger auto rifle with a good scope could assure head shots. That round is fast and accurate. I wouldn't be surprised to see defensive pistols made in that caliber. Bullet weight minimal, but shock would be tremendous. Recoil is negligible, too. You can sneer if you want to, but after assessing that one wound, I'd much rather be hit with a .22LR than a .17HRM. Actually, I would rather be hit by a pair of panties than either one.
 

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Terry G said:
I don't kill anything just to kill it, with the exception of skunks or obviouisly diseased animals.
Yeah, I was thinking of pest control.
Your right about the .17HRM. That tiny 17 Grainer is SMOKING. I think a nice Ruger auto rifle with a good scope could assure head shots. That round is fast and accurate.
Friend of mine bought a Savage in the .17 when it first came out. Real crappy trigger, but the thing was a tack driver. Even factory Ruger triggers are a LOT better. I don't see a Ruger 10/-series in the .17, but they have a few nice bolt action 77/17s available. Ruger 77/17 As do Marlin Marlin .17s
I wouldn't be surprised to see defensive pistols made in that caliber. Bullet weight minimal, but shock would be tremendous. Recoil is negligible, too. You can sneer if you want to, but after assessing that one wound, I'd much rather be hit with a .22LR than a .17HRM.
It would make a very nasty wound. However, I'd worry that a 17 grain varmint bullet would make a very nasty SHALLOW wound, and not do the deed. Maybe a solid.
Actually, I would rather be hit by a pair of panties than either one.
I second that.
 

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u are one STUPID fuck, thinking you know jack shit about me, punk. :) u r fos about the 2214. It's a SUPERB little pistol. Your not being able to detect that much at first glance shows what a lame you really ARE about guns.
 

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like I said, a lame like you NEEDS a map. when you get FORCED into an area that you have no map FOR, you will get what stupid jerks like you SHOULD get.
 

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andy said:
I LIVE in the sierras, dumbass.:) Yeah, go check OUT the price of a LaFrance Star "nova", clown, and TELL me it's cheap. Check out having a smith build you a 460 on an alloy frame, with a muzzle wt, spare slide in ACP, and a chopped Colt .22 unit, tell me THAT's cheap, too, ignoramus. :) What I put-out for cheapskates like you to consider, and what I'd smith for myself are two VERY different things, dumbass.
Hey NUTTY JOHN, Pagosa Springs, CO, is in the Rocky Mountains! Learn how to read a map TARD.
 

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I've been waiting for Ruger to get some 10/17s on the shelves for a while now. I think they fell asleep at the wheel on that one. My Remington 597 shoots really well in .17HMR, but I would still like to get something else in that caliber. It seems to be a pretty accurate cartridge and rather fun to shoot. I got my 597 when ammo was scarce as hen's teeth, so the prices on the guns came down a bit because of that little glitch.

Maybe a nice Anshutz would be fun to play with in .17HMR.

Can't say I would be too interested in a handgun in .17HMR, though. I think I would rather get one in the .17 Mach II instead. Seems like it would be a better combination to me. Heck, I would really like to see one of those nifty little Walther semi autos in .17 Mach II! I think that would be a sweet little gun to play with.

Well heck, maybe a 10/22 converted to .17 Mach II would be worth considering as well. I guess there will be (maybe are already?) replacement barrels available.....
 
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