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.22lr, 9x19,356 TSW, .45 ACP, 460 Rowland

5549 Views 49 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  BigEd
cover all the needed handgun bases very well, and if 356 and 460 were the world standard, wouldn't need to bother with the inferior loads in 9x19 and .45, either.
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Wonder why the 356 and 460 cals aren't the world standard. Could it be that thinking men just don't see the need for those cartridges.

The .356TSW wasn't a bad cartridge, a rather good one actually, but it is out of the limited production that it was given.

The ammo is virtually non-existant, a bit less common than 7.92mmKurz and only slightly more common than Gyrojet ammo. The .460 Rowland is in a similar category, though it's more of a custom wildcat than it ever was an attempt at a production cartridge.

The .357Sig is what is in use in the .356TSW's place.

You know, I kind of wish they'd put the VW Thing back into production for the American market. I liked it. But now it's mainly just an item for the niche enthusiast due to component availability, and that is that.
Didn't they call that Thing the Kubelwagen? I've seen them and they're very cool. Relatively inexpensive back many years ago. I wish they would come back too but VW would have it all swished up and in fluorescent colors.

Yeah, the VW Thing was essentially an updated Kubelwagen. Another cool vehicle would be to start producing the Schwimwagen, which was a rugged but simply constructed amphibious Kubelwagen.
460 rowland is NO joke. Its a modification kit for the 1911 pistol, basically its just a new barrel with compensator and recoil spring.

The cartridge is merely a slightly enlongated .45acp, with much thicker brass to handle the higher pressures. I have seen .460 rowland loads capable of nearly 1800 fps using a 185gr bullet out of a 5" barrel.

Depending on the strength of the recoil spring used, standard .45acp ammo can be fired out of a .460 chambered gun with no problems.

So as you can see the .460 offers many advantages in a belt gun sized 1911.

The 356TSW is basically the same concept as the 460. That is, a slightly enlongated 9mm loaded to higher pressures.
I can RELOAD, unlike your ineptness.I dont HAVE to settle for what the lameassed factories choose to offer the lame assed sheep who buy their crap. Starline still sells 356 TSW brass, and that's all you need to get going. <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> the bottlenecked 357 Sig Can't rechamber the Star's barrel for the larger OD case,and the ONLY reason to bother with the 356 is to have a POCKET gun that is powerful and SA. There is no POINT to ANYTHING less powerful than the 460 Rowland in a belt gun, other than a 9mm to practice-with.

no, you do NOT have to buy a comped barrel to shoot the 460. All you have to do is RENT a chambering rearmer, deepen the chamber of a fully supported .45 ACP barrel by .060". Get it thru your thick SKULLS that I am NOT interested,nor do I recommend, the typial cast or jacketed bullets in the 460. They all are too heavy, too low velocity, and too heavy in recoil. For big game,you can have a hollowbased, 90 gr swc, at 2100 fps in a 4" barrel, NO more recoil than a 185 gr Plus P .45 ACP. For men, you can have a 70 gr prefrag at 2300 fps, 4" barrel, NO more recoil than .45 ACP ball ammo. THAT'S why I prefer it. 90 grs at 2100 fps is 880 ft lbs,more than you can get with a 180 gr .44 mag Factory load, in a 9.5" .44 mag. (4" barrel) the 4.2" barreled lw commander, however, is 7.8" long. :) I dont HAVE to have BOTH a dumbassed hunting-only .44 AND a real ccw sidearm. I can have BOTH in a 28 oz package that's very slim, very easy to control,and I can both suppress it and swap it to many other calibers,to include 22lr.
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andy said:
I can RELOAD, unlike your ineptness.I dont HAVE
Don't have what? Don't have a heart - don't have a brain - don't have any courage. First true statement you've made in a while. Suggest you go with Dorothy to visit the Wizard of Oz where you can get what you don't have. If you behave yourself, she may allow you to wear her ruby red slippers.


(The reason for my comment is that Melvin started with an incomplete sentence as quoted above. I answered before he added to his babble. Since I like my comment better, will leave it as it stands. RIKA)
Yeah him and the Wizard would get along fine what with all the smoke and mirorrs.

Though if he was alot shorter and had wings he'd be a natural as a flying monkey.


BTW- Those Ruby Slippers would probably be too dangerous for him. I can just imagine him screwing up and freezing to death-"There's no place like Nome. There's no place like Nome. There's no place like Nome......." :dgrin:
Its my understanding that combat is not like IPSC, you don't always have time to pick up your brass afterwards. Something you just might want to consider!
No you cant pick up your brass but you can use captured .45acp for the rowland and 9mm for the 356tsw. There is some sense in what this guys saying dont discount everything just because the way he says it.
if u survive NEEDING to fire 10 rds out of a centerfire pistol, shtf, you will be on LUCKY man. when everyone with any sense is carrying an autorifle everywhere, you'd better NEVER have to fire your pistol more than 2-3 shots, and not that many more than 2-3 times.If you do, you won't make it. The odds of needingmore power than your wussy 9mm factory loads are a LOT higher than needing more than the 15 rds of tsw I'd carry for shtf.
I never discount what gunkid says out of hand. I always read it first, then I discount it! There is a benefit to having a caliber that is easy to find replacement ammo in. First it will be more readily available for the firearm that you have chosen. Secondly if a member of your group has a firearm in the same caliber, you can help resupply him in an emergency. Helping someone you can trust could save your own life somewhere down the road! Something to think about.
I was under the impression that "Dead was Dead", and there was no way to go beyond that point. If the .45acp will kill them why bother with the ubber wildcaty, or the oddball custom cartridge? After a certain point it becomes "Pickin' daisies with a back hoe" and irrelevant. Please do not respond with insults as I dont really care for Your opinion, or attitude, so keep the arguments in your head where they belong.
AGAIN! The .460 rowland will fire the .45acp ammo without changing barrels. All you need to do is get an 'itermediate' recoil spring. The extractor will hold the cartridge against the slide face so it doesnt sink into the chamber. It will fire .460 and .45 mixed in the same magazine. I assume that the 356tsw is capable of the same since its nothing more than a thicker walled 9mm case thats a 1/16th of an inch longer.

Your style of writing seems familiar. Have we met somewhere?

Sounds like a sloopy fit and inconsistant headspacing to me.

Which is a recipe for poor ignition and spotty accuracy.
If you have to have an upgraded .45ACP, why not just use the .45 Super? Exact same size as the ACP, so you're not relying entirely on the extractor to hold the cartridge in place, which is just a recipe for, well,
TODD 3465 said:
Which is a recipe for poor ignition and spotty accuracy.
Gunkid aka BOB, you failed to understand my second point, if you have to share ammunition with someone else in your team, a common caliber is an asset. A wildcat is detrimental in a combat situation.
Why not use a 45 super? Because a .45 super cannot launch a 185gr bullet at 1800fps. Although the .45 super is most certainly a better round than the antiquated .45acp. The advantages of the super are you could get smaller sized pistols chambered in it.

If you have to share with someone and your locked into what they have, well, your stuck with whatever they have.

But if you or your team is looking to get all the power and versatility you can out of a full sized pistol, then take a look at the 460 rowland conversion kits. Its 44 magnum power in a 1911 size, plain and simple. If you reload, the ammo is no issue as all you will need (assuming you already have 45acp equpitment) is 460 brass.

Is .45acp 'enough'? Probably. .223 is probably 'enough' too...

PS Raider, yes I believe we have 'met' before....
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