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.22lr, 9x19,356 TSW, .45 ACP, 460 Rowland

5546 Views 49 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  BigEd
cover all the needed handgun bases very well, and if 356 and 460 were the world standard, wouldn't need to bother with the inferior loads in 9x19 and .45, either.
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Try digesting what others say and at least have the manners to acknowledge it. We live in a very widespread continent, covering mavy geographical enviornments, with great temperature fluctuations. What suits you, won't necessarily be the best choice for me if the balloon ever went up. Please post a detailed kit list, of what you have packed and ready to go at this very minute!
I am not Bob,but you HAVE'met' him before.:)

the 45 ACP may KILL them,but so might a .22. STOPPING them instantly is the goal, tho,and typical .45 loads aint much at that. The 185 gr loads, at 1800 fps,if they are really attainable (1500 fps is what I've heard is the limit) are not AP, and are WAY too hard to control.

common ammo worry, for the pistol, means you MISS too much, and you are STUPID, and not having your RIFLE handy at all times. post shtf, if you have to fire your centerfire pistol more than 2-3 times,and more than 2-3 shots per occasion, you are going to DIE, because everybody else is going to have an auto rifle, and NOBODY survives engaging autorifles much,with a pistol.
So now you know that all of us will be engaging autorifles with pistols. You must have gobbled a handful of ego pills this morning. ugh.

You underestimate us and we win every time.

Maybe your partner lost his kit, in a water crossing, during an ambush, during a home theft, engaging dog packs whatever! Anything is possible. You assume that all the bad guys are going to have auto rifles, so why don't you assume that we will also??
What would the use of a combat pistol be, other than last ditch defense?

What does stuff being packed up and ready (to go where?why?) have to do with pistol stopping power?
andy said:
...common ammo worry, for the pistol, means you MISS too much, and you are STUPID, and not having your RIFLE handy at all times...

If the rifle could "always" be instantly at hand, what would be the point of having the pistol...?
I didn't SAY never needed, John, just not often at ALL, and not many rds per occation, either. There won't BE any practicing, post shtf, with the possible exception of silenced 22's. 15 rds of centerfire pistol ammo better last you for MANY years, when everyone is carrying an autorifle. If it doesn't, you will be dead, because you are leaving the rifle behind WAY too often.

WW2, Korea, were fought against BOLT actions. Since the advent of the AK everywhere, and everyone having a 22 autorifle, you'd BETTER NOT be without your autorifle, except VERY rarely, and for very short periods of time.

The main reason <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font> argue for leaving behind the rifle is they stupidly choose rifles and ammo that are too bulky and heavy. Having a CAR-15 on the sling is no problem at all.
if it AINT shtf, you can RELOAD all the Rowland ammo

you'd ever need.
So what your saying that because you can reload your .460 is a great survival caliber if the balloon ever goes up? I guess that means so is my .38-55 or Stillwells .38-40 or .44-40 also!!!!!
I was being sarcastic!
I actually have a .460 Rowland on the way, but I am not planning on it being anything more than a hunting round. With that big ol' compensator on the thing, I cannot imagine that one would not be completely blind in low light after the first round goes down range.
KEEP firing, Jon, as fast as possible, and USE that flash to get better hits. You dont HAVE to get the 460 done by Clark, ANYBODY can run a .45 ACP chambering reamer .060" deeper into any barrel, you know. So there is no need of a compensator, unless you just want to handicap yourself with those heavy bullets and resultant heavy recoil.
Andy - As for a compensator, Clark specifically says in their FAQ that an uncompensated handgun would be subjected to way too much stress, so much so that they won't sell an uncompensated kit. I'm not much on exceeding manufacturer's recommendations. Guess it's just the old lawyer coming out in me. ;) Will be "carrying" it in .45 configuration anyway.

that's with THEIR ridiculous loads. Can you do simple math? Multiply 70grs x 2300 fps. SAME result as 230 grs x 700 fps. Does 230grs at 700fps recoil too much for you? You EVER see me touting typical wt bullets, for ANYTHING, in a defensive pistol? Hell no you haven't,a ndthat's WHY, too.
223 fan said:
that's with THEIR ridiculous loads. Can you do simple math? Multiply 70grs x 2300 fps. SAME result as 230 grs x 700 fps.
I understand that you prefer light bullets moving fast, but mass and velocity don't have the same effect in the energy equation. ???
energy AINT about recoil. Momentum IS the same, and MOMENTUM is what you use to calculate recoil-effect. There is a SLIGHT difference between 70 grs at 2300 fps and230grs at 700fps,because of the 10 grs of powder difference to attain those velocities, but 70grs at 2300 fps does NOT recoil more than does .45 BALL ammo does.
Hmmm. Gonna have to think about that one for awhile .....
BigJon said:
...but mass and velocity don't have the same effect in the energy equation. ???

I've been out of school for a while, but iirc, velocity is squared in the energy equation. (E=MC^2 or maybe E=.5MC^2).

If I'm remembering that accurately, it means that increasing weight ("M") by 10% gives an overall energy increase of 10%, as "M" is simply multiplied in the equation. Increasing velocity ("C") by 10% would increase energy by much more, since the increase is squared before being multiplied.

In this same vein, what's a quick formula for muzzle energy in ft/lbs if you know bullet weight in grains and velocity in fps...?
E=MC^2 gives the energy output of a given mass of matter if converted entirely to energy in a 100% efficient reaction.

kinetic energy = (1/2)MV^2
momentum = MV
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