24" 223, 80 gr vld, has 400ft lbs, 700 yds

1824 Views 10 Replies 5 Participants Last post by Magnum88C, Jun 16, 2004

andy

Discussion Starter · Jun 10, 2004

so at that range, it is STILL hitting harder than .45 ball does at 10 ft. In fact, from a 3.5" compact .45, with some versions of ball ammo, the 223 vld is still hitting at least as hard as the .45 does at 10 ft, at 800yds.

That is, 300 ft lbs.

Where would you rather have to wait 30 seconds for a chest hit to bleed the guy out, at half a mile, where he was no threat to you BEFORE he was wounded, or at axe swiinging ranges, hmm? This is not to argue for the 223 as a "half mile" gun, but to show you how FOOLISH it is to expect .45 ball to be such a wonderful "manstopper". It aint. It won't reliably stop a chuck, **** or jackrabbit. Just go shoot 4-5 of such critters with it, you'll prove me correct. You might down 1-2 of them with the shot, just like you might do with a CCI Stinger hp, from a .22 rifle. Dont expect more, because you'll be just as shocked as I was to find this out, (35 years ago).

About the only ammo in .45 acp that amounts to a hoot is the 185 gr PLus P jhp, which is uncontrolable in an alloy compact ccw gun, or the 160 gr CorBon Powerball. The 165 gr Federal is wussy loaded, at 1000 fps. If it was 1200 fps,like the CorBon load, it would be a pretty serious contender. The 230 gr jhp's don't expand well, if at all, in flesh. Animal tests prove this. I'll bet BIG money against Gold Dots, etc, fired from 4" and less barrels, expanding to more than a lousy .60 calibler in animals, where a shirt and jacket are put into the bullet's path (as they always are when you have to shoot a man).

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.45 COLT

· #2 · Jun 10, 2004

expanding to more than a lousy .60 calibler in animals, where a shirt and jacket are put into the bullet's path (as they always are when you have to shoot a man).

A lousy 60 caliber? How much does the hallowed .223 expand to? I've never seen a **** wearing a shirt and jacket, so can't comment on the performance of the .45 ACP against one, but my 230 grain +P+ handloads don't leave much ****.

I'm assuming that when you refer to "ball", you really mean a full jacket bullet. (That isn't what it means, but common usage has bastardized the meaning). Why would someone limit themselves to a full-jacket bullet in a defensive load? My 230 grain loads, either XTP's or Gold Dots would be my choice. Since your doomsday has not yet arrived, I think toting a rifle around the streets for self-defense would tend to make people a bit twitchy, and probably land you back in prison.

The .45 ACP isn't my favorite gun for SD, the .45 Colt is, but don't dismiss the ACP as pretty much useless. When you do that, you show a total disconnect from reality.

DC

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Clint Boyer

· #3 · Jun 10, 2004

Dismissing the .45 because you shot a couple of ***** and rabbits without success is rediculous!
The .45 is a PROVEN man stopper in war angainst men (not rabbits). WWI, WWII, Korea, Nam, all have instances of brave soldiers standing their ground and being over run. It's the .45 in the trench at close range that saved many lives. They used "ball" ammo and did so effectively.

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84 C4

· #4 · Jun 10, 2004

.45 ACP did a pretty good job stopping Philipino rebels hopped up on PCP...

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andy

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 12, 2004

the Moros didn't HAVE PCP, dip[bleep],

It wasn't first synthesized until the 1960's, and the Moro Insurrection was OVER WITH by 1912. So no 1911's got ANY service against the Moros. Instead, the "military" (read wussy) load of the .45 L Colt revolver was used, and no, it didn't stop them. The 30-40 Krag RIFLE didn't stop the "juramentados" either.

VERY few cases of the pistol's being used in the military stand up to the light of careful examination. 90+% of what you read and hear is pure BS. .45 ball stops about the same number of people that .22 Stingers (when fired from a rifle barrel) does, a bit over 50% of them. You have obviously ZERO experience with it. If you want to trust a load for defense, that is EASILY proven to not reliably stop a ****, go for it. I want loads that are PROVEN to knock big dogs sprawling.

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84 C4

· #6 · Jun 12, 2004

??

You know nothing about the Filipino insurrection, our troops did have .45s over there, they also had lugers. I know they didn't have PCP, I was using it to convey the message that the rebels were on a mind altering hallucinagenic drug, which they were.

As for it being as effective as a ".22 stinger," you're completely full of it. And the 30-40 Krag, you're also full of it there, too. The 30-40 Krag is a .30 bullet, with 40 grains of powder, the 30-30 is a .30 bullet with 30 grains of powder (ie weaker) and can take down a buck at 300 yds. Therefore, the 30-40 Krag would be able to do the same, and if it can take down a buck, it can take down a human. Have you ever even fired a gun before?

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Clint Boyer

· #7 · Jun 12, 2004

90+% of what you read and hear is pure BS.

Boy you got that much right, except it may be a bit higher in your case.

.45 ball stops about the same number of people that .22 Stingers (when fired from a rifle barrel) does, abit over 50% of them.

Where did you get this piece of info? You SHOW me where you found data on people being shot with Stingers from a rifle. Pure BS, and you wonder why we don't believe anything you write!

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andy

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 12, 2004

U show ME where you got real "data"

on people being shot with .45 ball (as vs bs STORIES). I go by what I see on flesh and blood animal shootings. .45 ball is piss poor, and I can PROVE it. I will bet $5000 to your $500, that if we each shoot 10 dogs, from the front, to ONE lung, the way men get shot, me with a .22 rifle, using Stingers, and you with .45 ball from a ccw pistol, there will be no significant difference in how long or how far they last. So come ON, sucker, you are so SURE .45 ball is so great, here's your CHANCE, make a fast 5k$.

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Clint Boyer

· #9 · Jun 13, 2004

Don't try your bull and smoke screen tactics....You are the one making the claims that are being refuted so show me data on people being shot with Stingers! You can't.

I'm sure Colorado has some animal protection laws that would keep you from blasting defensless dogs. I wouldn't participate in any function involving your twisted ideas.

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andy

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jun 13, 2004

PLENTY have shot dogs with .22 rifles,

punk, PLENTY who read this have done so. PRODUCE the PROOF that .45 ball is ANY more effective. You are CLAIMING that it IS. I offered you a way to PROVE it, and you RAN. You are just a lying, snitching, chicken[bleep] punk, and I can prove it, any time.

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Magnum88C

· #11 · Jun 16, 2004

Your constant whining about .45 FMJ is moot, since most people who carry .45s don't rely on FMJ anyway. Plus you keep handicapping it by saying a bad hit with .45 FMJ is no better than a bad hit with [insert cartridge of the day here]. Yeah big leap of intelligence there, bad hits are bad hits. It's like you claiming .308 FMJ is a bad stopper because you shot a robbit in the foot with one (what is it with you and feet anyway?) and the hit didn't stop it. . .

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