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at night or in thick cover, and only idiots are in open country in daylight. So why bother with the pos? Just means no concealment, no .22 unit, no can, or no handiness with can, same thing, carry half as much ammo, etc.
 

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Moron alert! Repetitive post. Moron alert!

Thank you andy.

RIKA
 

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Nice handgun post, everyone.
So... back in the handgun arena, I have a theory with my snub and short barrel revolvers, none of which are magnum. I theorize the short barrels negate any advantage of using HP ammo, because the velocity (say, in 44 spec) doesn't allow for expansion. Any input (again, this is the handguns forum)?
SatCong
 

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Actually, since there are handguns in both these calibers, it could be a handgun thread.

But, on the other points Andy makes,

Well he has pretty much admitted he can't carry very much, so even with a modest load, we will probably be carrying twice as much ammo as Andy is.

As far as the .22 unit, etc.

Same old same old...

Andy, you need to get some different stupid stuff to post....

:devil:
 

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I'd say that isn't true at all, Satcong. .45 HP opens up just fine at 1000 fps and under, as does .38 special ammo. Below a certain velocity and/or frontal area, though, you tend to get spotty performance...either the thing expands beautifully and doesn't penetrate well or it penetrates deeply and doesn't open up at all.

.38 special is tricky to squeeze decent performance out of due to lack of both velocity and frontal area. Speer makes a new 135 grain +p load that looks promising, but currently doesn't penetrate quite well enough, according to gelatin testing. It should be easy to get the magic numbers of 14" penetration and .50+ size after expansion out of the .44 special. I wouldn't be surprised if you could squeeze at least .65"+ out of it, as the better .45 loads make it to between .70"-.74".

Edit: I expected .357 magnum HPs out of a short barrel to be about as underwhelming as the .38 loads ...turns out they work just fine. You just have to choose your ammo carefully.
 

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Thanks, 'yote,
I see your points, I load for my 44 spec, shooting a 2" barrelled taurus. I have not shot anything into gel or wet newsprint, but I have picked up (at the range) a few silvertips (210gr) and a couple of 325 gr hp's that looked as if I could just load them again. (even tho they look good, i will not do that !) I have a new vaquero 45 lc with the 3" sherrif's barrel and have not yet loaded for it and wondered if the barrel length is a big consideration in bullet performance vis-a vis bullet types in this weapon/configuration.
Satcong
 

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It's definitely a consideration. Certain bullets are designed to expand at certain ranges of velocities. If you push them faster than their velocity envelope, they actually fold back on themselves and decrease the size of the wound cavity. Not fast enough and they don't expand properly, if at all.

Ammolab.com and tacticalforums.com both have good ballistics info, IMO.
 

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SatCong
My problem with low-powered loads and hollowpoints is this:
They don't always expand, and if they do, they tend to underpenetrate. For a low-velocity gun (especially a revolver) I prefer a heavy-for caliber hardcast bullet with a wide meplat. The meplat helps increase the damamge quite a bit over a roundnose, and the heavy projectile will penetrate to where it needs to be.
This type of gun is like any other, it matters more where you hit, than what you hit with. The only caveat being, you have to use a bullet that can get deep enough to do the deed.
 

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at night or in thick cover, and only idiots are in open country in daylight. So why bother with the pos? Just means no concealment, no .22 unit, no can, or no handiness with can, same thing, carry half as much ammo, etc.
so what, exactly, hinders the .308 at night? Does darkness make it not perform?
 

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so what, exactly, hinders the .308 at night? Does darkness make it not perform?
Well, that goes with some of his many other ridiculous claims. Like only his sainted and annointed POS-CAR has night sights.
In his Brigand's Guide to the Galaxy "noone" but him or his dumbciples weapons have tritium sights or night vision on their weapons.
Although I remember years ago posting examples of available tritium sights for various other weapons and NODs to fit them.

He as also has no clue that field craft applies to day and night unless someone is running thermal.
As always he's in his SHTFantasy world in that little pin head of his.
 

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Of the 13 years that I humped either an FN C1A1 or the selective fire edition the FN C2A1 in 7.62 NATO 1/2 way around the world, I found it very reliable when used at night.
 

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IF, he could legally handle and shoot a suppressed SCAR-17* he might, although never admit, that he's way behind the curve.
*And that's just one example.
 

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IF, he could legally handle and shoot a suppressed SCAR-17* he might, although never admit, that he's way behind the curve.
*And that's just one example.
The most modern suppressed thing I've fired was a P90, and it was definitely different even from my suppressed CAR-15's. It was a friend's gun, with a Saker 556 on it. The suppressor was compact, something like 1.5"x7", but not positive on the exact size.

I didn't like the way the chamber was so close to my face because I did get some smoke in my face when on full auto, but that may be almost inevitable with a bullpup. But I really liked the full-auto trigger setup. Even when on full auto, if you pulled the trigger slow & careful - just a little, as in going for a precise shot - you got a single shot. But if you clamped it down hard (as you would in a panic situation) you got full auto. I had no idea those were made that way, and I actually liked it. If I were starting out, I'd be tempted by the 5.7 caliber for defensive purposes, but I don't want to start any new calibers at this point.

He also brought an HK 51 (or some G3 variant) full auto that same day that he shot but I passed on. I'm sure the fish in the pond were very traumatized by the time we got done that day.
 
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