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Discussion Starter #1
OK, gurus, what gives? I am using brand new 45-70 brass (Remington brand) and Sierra .458 dia 300gr FN HP bullets. I have resized the brass and even tried it just as it comes out of the bag. The round on the left is the result. If I ream the inside of the case heavily to where it is almost a V, I get mixed success, but still get a lot of rounds that look like the 4 on the right. Is there some way to shape the neck of the case so it has a slight bell or what do I need to do? I have reloaded a lot of stuff, but this is my first attempt at these straight-walled 45-70's and I am obviously missing something. HELP!

 

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Lee carried some dies for flaring case mouths. IIRC, my powder charging dies do the job.

Did you mic the bullets? I got a batch of .40 S&W once that was mismarked 9mm. I was less than happy when I crushed the first casing I tried to load. I am short on 9mm brass as it is. I can't afford to lose any. I bet those .45-70 casings are much worse, given that they are new brass.

If you can't find a die to do what you want, you might try a pipe flaring tool. It would be kind of trial and error to get the flair right without being too wide for the bullet seating die and you would have to do it by hand, but it would work. Still that isn't exactly the right way to go about it.

The only other thing I can think of for you to try is to lube the bullets like you would lead ones. You shouldn't have to, but it is an idea.

EDIT: I found it on Lee's website. Here's the link: http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cat...=/html/catalog/lubesize.html#CaseExpandingDie
 

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Lee carried some dies for flaring case mouths. IIRC, my powder charging dies do the job.

Did you mic the bullets? I got a batch of .40 S&W once that was mismarked 9mm. I was less than happy when I crushed the first casing I tried to load. I am short on 9mm brass as it is. I can't afford to lose any. I bet those .45-70 casings are much worse, given that they are new brass.

If you can't find a die to do what you want, you might try a pipe flaring tool. It would be kind of trial and error to get the flair right without being too wide for the bullet seating die and you would have to do it by hand, but it would work. Still that isn't exactly the right way to go about it.

The only other thing I can think of for you to try is to lube the bullets like you would lead ones. You shouldn't have to, but it is an idea.

EDIT: I found it on Lee's website. Here's the link: http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cat...=/html/catalog/lubesize.html#CaseExpandingDie
the case mouth needs to be belled just like pistol cases in order to seat the bullet with out damaging the cases.
 

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OK, gurus, what gives? I am using brand new 45-70 brass (Remington brand) and Sierra .458 dia 300gr FN HP bullets. I have resized the brass and even tried it just as it comes out of the bag. The round on the left is the result. If I ream the inside of the case heavily to where it is almost a V, I get mixed success, but still get a lot of rounds that look like the 4 on the right. Is there some way to shape the neck of the case so it has a slight bell or what do I need to do? I have reloaded a lot of stuff, but this is my first attempt at these straight-walled 45-70's and I am obviously missing something. HELP!

I haven't examined the latest dies out, but historically expander dies always had a casemouth belling area near the top of the expansion plug. Adjust the expansion plug just low enough to get enough belling to ease starting of the bullet. Don't bell the the mouths to much or you will overwork the brass and cause it to become brittle. After the cases have been reloaded several times you might want to anneal the mouths because of the work-hardening. Stand the empty cases up in a pan of water with about .75 inch protuding above the water and heat them up to just a slight redness with a torch and then immediately knock them over. Brass responds to heating and quenching exactly the opposite of iron or steel.

Best regards, BIGBORE
 

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I haven't examined the latest dies out, but historically expander dies always had a casemouth belling area near the top of the expansion plug. Adjust the expansion plug just low enough to get enough belling to ease starting of the bullet. Don't bell the the mouths to much or you will overwork the brass and cause it to become brittle. After the cases have been reloaded several times you might want to anneal the mouths because of the work-hardening. Stand the empty cases up in a pan of water with about .75 inch protuding above the water and heat them up to just a slight redness with a torch and then immediately knock them over. Brass responds to heating and quenching exactly the opposite of iron or steel.

Best regards, BIGBORE
don't mean to pop any bubbles but i've been loading 45/70 for about 25+ yrs. i have never had to anneal a case mouth on any of them as you describe doing. if you don't over bell the mouth you'll split the case before you ever have it work hardened enough to worry about. i lose more 45/70 cases to body cracks than cracks in the case mouth area, to worry about.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks to all for the advice. I was just being stupid. I was using a RCBS 3-dies set. The first die is the standard de-cap and resizing die, the second one is marked “SEATING,” which is a misnomer. To my feeble mind, that indicated that it was for seating the bullet and the third die, marked “CRIMPER” was going to crimp the case. The SEATING die is actually a neck expander die, and it cannot even be used to seat the bullet. Once the neck of the cases were expanded, the bullets seated fine and the crimp die worked as expected. This was my first attempt at loading straight-walled rifle cases. Now that I know how to do it, it will be easy next time.
 

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It happens to the best of us. You did well to catch and diagonse the problem before it became a major event. I know a few goof balls that would have tried to shoot those rounds you pictured in your first post. It is amazing they are still swimming in our gene pool.
 

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Just a thought cuz I load for 45-70 too. When I first started reloading them I had trouble with the RCBS crimp die buckling the case. No matter how I adjusted the die I always lost a couple of same length cases. A Lee factory crimp die solved my problems and now my reloads are perfect. I get an overlapping cloverleaf 5 shot group at 100 yds.

RIKA
 
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