[mrostov]

These are pics from someone else I know. I'm reposting them here because it pertains to some discussions we've been having lately.

This was an adult doe muledeer killed with an uphill head shot at about 130 yards. The results are from a single 64gr Winchester Power Point fired out of a 16" barrel 5.56mm CAR-15. Muzzle velocity on this load out of that gun is 2750fps.

The smaller hole is the entrance wound and the bigger hole is the exit wound. Notice the blown out eye on the exit wound side.

 

[andy]

sorta proves garad's fos, hmm? The velocity remaining to that bullet, at that range would be under 2500 fps. So much for "needing" 2700 fps.

 

[Magnum88C]

No, notice it was a Winchester Powerpoint (fine bullet BTW). 2700 fps is the fragmentation threshold for FMJ ammo. So no, Garand's (and mrostov, etc) are not FOS.

 

[andy]

yes, they ARE fos, garnad claims 223 bullets bounce off of him at 250m, and rostov claims u just GOTTA have 2700 fps and gotta have at least 16" barrel. Well, bs, the sp'swork FINE down to 2000 fps, and aint no joke at 1800 fps, and a good handload,in a 10" barrel, still has 1800 fps at 200m. So YOU are fos, too, just like I've said dozens of times.

 

[Garand]

Excellent shot placement. Can you please post a link to the sight where I stated the .223's bounce off you at 250m? I'd really like to see that. Personally, if I am required to hunt again, it will be on the prairies. Given the location I would prefer a larger bullet, something in the area of 6.5x55mm or .308 Winchester. Long range shooting here is the norm, not the unusual.

 

[Hard Ball]

GunKid somply does not understanf internal, external or terminal ballistics.

 

[Magnum88C]

He also can't distingush words. 2700 fps is the threshold for FMJ, BALL ammo, not PowerPoints, Failsafes, Partitions, Ballistic tips, et al.

 

[mrostov]

yes, they ARE fos, garnad claims 223 bullets bounce off of him at 250m, and rostov claims u just GOTTA have 2700 fps and gotta have at least 16" barrel. Well, bs, the sp'swork FINE down to 2000 fps, and aint no joke at 1800 fps, and a good handload,in a 10" barrel, still has 1800 fps at 200m. So YOU are fos, too, bozo, just like I've said dozens of times.

You have to have at least a 16" barrel to have any real range or accuracy.

Your 11.5" barrel simply loses far too much energy too fast and isn't accurate enough for optimum effectiveness, even with a ballistic tip bullet.

BTW, actual, traditional exposed lead 'softpoints' are not optimal in a 5.56mm. The 64gr Winchester Power Point is a ballistic tip.

 

[andy]

says you. thousands of us have used sp's in 223 for

years. your "optimal" is bs. You dont have a CLUE as to what performance can be had from an 11.5" barrel. all you've EVER done is read about it on the Net, where some bozo who didnt have enough sense to use good ammo CLAIMS such and such about it. I"ve owned a pair of them for years, and know of many more owned by others, and as I said, you are fos. They are perfectly capable of holding 10" groups at 300m, just the standard issue ones, and a match grade version will hold 6". Sure, that requires match ammo, scope, trigger job, but so what? The 10" barrel isn't far behind such performance, either.

What you'd BETTER consider to be FAR more important is your stupidity about the use of a suppressor, <font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font><font color=red>*</font>.

 

[Garand]

Please provide additional details on group size at 300 meters, weather condition, brass used, propellant used, primer used, bullet used, date shot.

 

[Magnum88C]

Actually, the Power Point is a soft point, however, it is an improvement on the basic SP spitzer.

From Winchester's site:

"Super-X® Power-Point®: Unique soft nose jacketed design delivers maximum energy on target. Notches around jacket mouth improve upset and ensure uniform, rapid expansion. "

Winchester Buillets

 

[RIKA]

I notice that the Win is cannelured. Now will that cannelure help it break up like the military round or is it just for crimping the case neck.

RIKA

 

[SatCong]

After that "Bullseye at 8gr not cycling a 9mm" thread tiny posted, I would not put much stock in anything he states, much less regarding propellant info.
SatCong

 

[andy]

u dont WANT or need the sp to break up. Fragging

is just the LAME hope guys have when they are dumb enough to be using ball ammo in the first place. With a good sp, you should get a nice mushroom and adequate penetration. You do NOT want that sp to be shedding its jacket or fragging. If it frags, penetration is likely to be inadequate, for anything bigger than a fox.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Of course you mean if it fragments immediately upon entry, and not after it has already traveled about 4 - 6 inches in the wound cavity, don't you?

 

[andy]

no advantage if 223 sp frags, at any depth,

on animals bigger than foxes. All you get is tiny frags that do little damage, and penetrate very little on their own. They mostly just take the path of least resistance, which is along the woundpath created by what's left of the bullet. So, basically, all you get if the sp frags is less penetration, which is normally of no advantage at all, except on small critters, where worries of richochets and overpenetration are high, in populated areas, or around lots of valuable livestock, etc.

 

[Magnum88C]

I notice that the Win is cannelured. Now will that cannelure help it break up like the military round or is it just for crimping the case neck.

RIKA

It's a crimp groove. You'll notice the case isn't any thinner where the groove is, it just "notches in".

 

[Magnum88C]

no advantage if 223 sp frags, at any depth, on animals bigger than foxes. All you get is tiny frags that do little damage, and penetrate very little on their own. They mostly just take the path of least resistance, which is along the woundpath created by what's left of the bullet.

Just like your ultralight non-existant split-nosed garbage.

 

[andy]

stupid, aint ya?

the split nose is three BIG chunks of PURE TIN, which do NOT frag into smaller pcs, dumbass.

 

[andy]

$50 plus $5 s and H, gets 20 of them shipped to you,

punk. 9mm or .45. Put up or shut up, punk.