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no rangefinder, and hit 12"x24" man torso, at 300-400 yds, using traditional ammo in a lever action or spld Trapdoor, iron sights, 10 shots, varied ranges, elevations and conditions, even HALF of the time. :) u "think" 45-70 a long range round, in its traditional format, u r fos. The scoped 10" 223 will do THAT well, EASILY.
 

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223 fan said:
no rangefinder, and hit 12"x24" man torso, at 300-400 yds, using traditional ammo in a lever action or spld Trapdoor, iron sights, 10 shots, varied ranges, elevations and conditions, even HALF of the time. :) u "think" 45-70 a long range round, in its traditional format, u r fos. The scoped 10" 223 will do THAT well, EASILY.
Hell, I can do that that. Gimme an upfront for the cost of the rifle and I'll come down and visit you this weekend to take the rest. Do we have a deal?
 

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Funny thing is, with "traditional ammo", i.e. 500-gr lead or 405-gr lead (both were used, the 500-gr was the original infantry load, the 405-gr was the original cavalry load) over blackpowder is more accurate than most smokeless loads.

Now the 10" .223 MIGHT hit as often (although doubtful at 400 yards), but will NOT hit as hard. Want to add a power level to the equation? Say, it has to knock down a target with a certain mass, or just punch paper and ignore terminal effects as usual?
 

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223 fan said:
no rangefinder, and hit 12"x24" man torso, at 300-400 yds, using traditional ammo in a lever action or spld Trapdoor, iron sights, 10 shots, varied ranges, elevations and conditions, even HALF of the time. :) u "think" 45-70 a long range round, in its traditional format, u r fos. The scoped 10" 223 will do THAT well, EASILY.
But the 10" CAR, as I have PROVED, is a pos that does not have power at 300-400 range. The velocity loss is so great you might nick someone at 400 yards, but a 45/70 at that range will put an almost 1/2 inch hole right through them. Of course a ex-con with no experience at this except old gun magazines just shows his ignorance, as usual.
 

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For a trained marksman, it is any easy shot. Skilled shooters don't need to rely on electronic aids at such a short range as 300-400 yds. Just because you are incapable of making that shot doesn't mean that we are that inept!
 

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no rangefinder, and hit 12"x24" man torso, at 300-400 yds, using traditional ammo in a lever action or spld Trapdoor, iron sights, 10 shots, varied ranges, elevations and conditions, even HALF of the time. :) u "think" 45-70 a long range round, in its traditional format, u r fos. The scoped 10" 223 will do THAT well, EASILY.
Why not a scoped 45-70? Are you touting the AR, or the optics? If you want to make it apples to apples, either they both get optics or neither does. If you’re talking about the capability of the rifles, then that would be the way to do it.

however, the 45-70 in the right hands is up to the challenge. I don’t own one, but I know people that do.
 

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Melvin, will my Shilo Sharps #3 Sporting Rifle in .45-70 work, no optics but a nice double set trigger set a 16 oz.

 
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