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Discussion Starter #1
100 shots to the lb, 70 gr charges. That's a great plenty for 2 years of foraging if you're shooting bison and elk, adequate if deer, but it's quite marginal if you're mostly shooting small game. Which is damned hard to do/wasteful with a big bore muzzleloader.

just checked and there were 33 people, not 15.. So they'd have enough powder for 600 shots each.
 

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Did you think it was a Hunting trip?
 

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I think it was .40 and took like 2300 pumps per shot!
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
ONE, big deal. and it was slow as molasses to charge.

600 shots of even .44 KY rifle is 140 grs per shot. counting the ball. Probably more, heavier caliber were probaby used. but for my purposes, lets say 12 lbs of lead. 18 lbs of "ammo", and a 10 lb rifle. If instead, I've got a 4 lb AR, 1 lb of .22 unit and spare mag, 1 20 rd and 2 30 rd 223 mags, half a lb of mags, 3/4 lb of silencer, 1 lb of scope and mount, 1/4 lb of bipod and spare bolt (all parts in it) 1/4 lb of solvent and graphite lube. Say 8 lbs. 20 lbs of ammo to have the same load. Think that'd last ya for a couple of years, braining bison, elk, maybe moose, a few bears, chest hitting pronghorn and deer?, Say 4 lbs of 223 ammo, allowing for a bit of fighting, 140 rds 16 lbs of subsonic 60 gr 22 Aquila, 100 rds to the lb, 1600 shots at small game, birds, etc. Realistically, 1.5 lbs of each, 223, and .22lr, should be plenty, so no need of all the hassles and risks of using horses. Saving 16 lbs, having luminous sights, silencer, subsonic ammo, rapidfire, concealment of the longarm, at least twice the effective range, without the need to carry a buffalo robe to keep warm. :) Yeah, I think that I'm WAY better off. No horrors of trying to clean a muzzleloader in the field, no misfires from rain or high humidity.

when you figure that you'll get a hindquarter of beef with most .22 shots fired (or an entire big dog, some deer, etc) that 150 rds of .22 ammo looks like a great plenty for a couple of years, eh? With the 223 braining an elk or bear now and then, reaching 150 yds or so to take deer and pronghorn with chest hits, and enough sense to have gill nets and trotlines, things go a lot further/better, without nearly the bulk/weight risk that L and C's men had to face

When you add some caches, maybe a mountain bike, NVD goggles, another 50 lbs of jerky, inflatable raft, etc, things really start looking better. Bikes dont bite you, throw you (or your gear) off, don't get sick or hurt, dont make noise, dont have to be fed or watered, and they STAY hidden under a bush after you put them there! Chained and padlocked, of course.
 

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According to PBS, "Lewis & Clark" by Ken Burns (1997)

Arms & Accoutrements
- 15 Rifles
- 15 Powder Horns
- 15 Pair of Bullet Molds
- 15 (illegible)
- 15 Ball screws
- 24 Tomahawks
- 24 Large Knives
- 15 Gun slings
- 500 Flints
- 200 lbs Rifle Powder
- 400 lbs Lead


That makes it 13.3 lbs of powder & 26.6 lbs of lead per firearm. Yes there were 33 participants but apparently not all required arms.
 

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They were all armed. The 15 Muskets listed were a new model that were given to the expedition to test and evaluate. The other men carried the issued Muskets of the type in service at that time or carried Rifles that were approved by Captain Clark. Captain Clark himself carried a Rifle. The History Channel is entertaining, but deviates from the facts on occasion.
 

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Actually I took that list from a photograph of the original list of stores from the expedition.
 

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I'm pretty sure that list was a requisition from U.S. Army stores, not everything obtained for the Expedition of Discovery. See the Journal of Patrick Gass and the Journal of Merriweather Lewis. Addition to supplies were made at least twice, Gass say's more. In addition Jim Bridger left the expedition early with the permission of Clark & Lewis and "took his rifle and a quantity of powder." I doubt he would have been allowed to take Army property, so I assume the rifle was his own.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
it was plenty when and where there were bison, but there aint any such herds any more. and one person, in hot weather, can barely jerk one deer's meat, much less 1000 lbs of bison. So the silenced AR15 shorty, with the .22 unit makes a lot more sense than any stupid muzzleloader. I constantly see guys claiming that they can make black powder. right, IF there's a drugstore where they can buy the ingredients! :) wtf you'd even want to bother? The weight and cost of the clunker gun, if applied to .22lr ammo, would last you for a lifetime. since you;'re so ****ing sure there wont be any fighting when shtf. I have to tend to agree, tho, that YOU wouldn't be doing any fighting.
 

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flexibility and versatility, Melvin, get with the program!
 
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