a meaner load than a 125gr 357, from a 4" barrel, and it's a LOTmore effectice, PROVABLE on animals, than a 230 gr .45 jhp, at 800 fps. An 11" 223 can easily still have 60 grs at 2000 fps at 200 yds, and that covers WELL over 95% of the NON ACCIDENTAL hits in combat. Even if you "only" start it at 2600 fps, it will still have well over 2200 fps at 100 yds, and that covers over 90% of the NON ACCIDENTAL hits in combat. 60grs at 2200 fps is 650 ft lbs, the same power as a HOrnet has at the MUZZLE, for the edification of a particularly ignorant member here.