get. 26.o-27.0 grs of AA2520, depending upon the barrel. That's 970 ft lbs, about what a 6" .44 mag revolver gets. The 6" .44 has taken every animal that walks,many times over, with video and witnesses to prove it, and yet wussies "think" a 223 can't reliably take coyotes beyond 200m, and that an 11" 223 can't do so beyond 100m. I got news for such ignoramuses.
60 grs, 2700 fps, 11" 223, aint hard to
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It isn't all about muzzle energy. Energy is a measure, but not the ultimate. To prove this to yourself, load two different weight bullets of the same construction to the same muzzle energy. A .357 is a pretty good cartridge for the proof.
A 125 grain XTP at 1400 fps. 544 ft lbs.
A 158 grain XTP at 1250 fps. 548 ft lbs.
Shoot each into a block of ductseal clay. The 158 grain bullet will penetrate much deeper and create a much larger wound channel, measured by filling with water. That's just fact. Try it.
Another test would be to see how well each penetrates a hard substance, then into dsc. Hard plastic, such as used in cheap bathroom sinks, is a pretty good bone simulator. A 1/2" thickness will pretty much use up the 125 grain bullet (not stop it, but it doesn't have much left when it hits the dsc), while the 158 grain bullet will do considerable more "damage".
If those two little tests still don't convince you, load the 158 grain bullet down to around 1100 fps, leaving the 125 grain bullet at 1400 fps. Reshoot. That should be enough.
Energy isn't everything.
DC
A 125 grain XTP at 1400 fps. 544 ft lbs.
A 158 grain XTP at 1250 fps. 548 ft lbs.
Shoot each into a block of ductseal clay. The 158 grain bullet will penetrate much deeper and create a much larger wound channel, measured by filling with water. That's just fact. Try it.
Another test would be to see how well each penetrates a hard substance, then into dsc. Hard plastic, such as used in cheap bathroom sinks, is a pretty good bone simulator. A 1/2" thickness will pretty much use up the 125 grain bullet (not stop it, but it doesn't have much left when it hits the dsc), while the 158 grain bullet will do considerable more "damage".
If those two little tests still don't convince you, load the 158 grain bullet down to around 1100 fps, leaving the 125 grain bullet at 1400 fps. Reshoot. That should be enough.
Energy isn't everything.
DC
next time I get attacked by a sink or
block of clay, I'll take that into consideration. If I want to take on elephant with an 11" 223, it will be with a 90 gr, solid bronze, hollowbased bullet, at about 2200 fps in the CAR. It IS about the APPROPRIATE use of energy. If you aint GOT ENOUGH energy, it doesn't matter WHAT form you twist it into, it's still not enough. 158 gr 357's at such speeds, are uncontrolable in ccw size and wt guns. Also, in such guns, controlable speeds, with such bullet wts, mean no expansion of the bullet in flesh. I'd like to see you TRY to match the .18 second split times of the SAME sized 9mm, as your 357 snub is, using a 158 gr with the same energy as the 9mm has. Say, 90 grs at 1500 fps, 450 ft lbs. in a 6.7", 24 oz auto. Get your 158 gr bullet going 1150 fps(if you CAN) in your 24 ozs, 6.7" long 357 snub, and you will get at best .35 seoncd splits, for repeat hits on the 10" circle of the chest, at 5 yds. Maybe you want to be twice as slow as you need be, but nobody with any sense does.
The lungs are rarely more than 2" deep from the front of the chest, the heart almost never more than 3". from the side, the lung is never deeper, and the heart is at most 7' from the ribs. If you'd like to hold up an 8" thick dog in front of your chest, and let me pop him with a 90 gr 9mm, I'd be glad to accomodate you. You'd be perfectly safe, since everyone KMOWS a 90 gr 9mm jhp wont penetrate more than 8" of flesh and blood, right? RIGHT?
Arm first hits are MISSES, since you never INTENDED to hit the arm, and they are actually pretty rare. an adquately destructive and shocking, load, typically makes that arm USELESS with such a hit, which can often be of A LOT MORE value than a .45 ball hit to the lung, as far as achieving an immediate effect goes. Certainly, the 357 snub load can be deflected by an arm bone, too, and then it takes you TWICE as long to get a repeat hit, and you've only got 5 tries with which to do so, too,fighting a DA trigger and the revolver's higher line of recoil as you do so.
Guns that are too big and heavy to have WITH you don't count.
block of clay, I'll take that into consideration. If I want to take on elephant with an 11" 223, it will be with a 90 gr, solid bronze, hollowbased bullet, at about 2200 fps in the CAR. It IS about the APPROPRIATE use of energy. If you aint GOT ENOUGH energy, it doesn't matter WHAT form you twist it into, it's still not enough. 158 gr 357's at such speeds, are uncontrolable in ccw size and wt guns. Also, in such guns, controlable speeds, with such bullet wts, mean no expansion of the bullet in flesh. I'd like to see you TRY to match the .18 second split times of the SAME sized 9mm, as your 357 snub is, using a 158 gr with the same energy as the 9mm has. Say, 90 grs at 1500 fps, 450 ft lbs. in a 6.7", 24 oz auto. Get your 158 gr bullet going 1150 fps(if you CAN) in your 24 ozs, 6.7" long 357 snub, and you will get at best .35 seoncd splits, for repeat hits on the 10" circle of the chest, at 5 yds. Maybe you want to be twice as slow as you need be, but nobody with any sense does.
The lungs are rarely more than 2" deep from the front of the chest, the heart almost never more than 3". from the side, the lung is never deeper, and the heart is at most 7' from the ribs. If you'd like to hold up an 8" thick dog in front of your chest, and let me pop him with a 90 gr 9mm, I'd be glad to accomodate you. You'd be perfectly safe, since everyone KMOWS a 90 gr 9mm jhp wont penetrate more than 8" of flesh and blood, right? RIGHT?
Arm first hits are MISSES, since you never INTENDED to hit the arm, and they are actually pretty rare. an adquately destructive and shocking, load, typically makes that arm USELESS with such a hit, which can often be of A LOT MORE value than a .45 ball hit to the lung, as far as achieving an immediate effect goes. Certainly, the 357 snub load can be deflected by an arm bone, too, and then it takes you TWICE as long to get a repeat hit, and you've only got 5 tries with which to do so, too,fighting a DA trigger and the revolver's higher line of recoil as you do so.
Guns that are too big and heavy to have WITH you don't count.
G
Guest
·Knew you'd come up with some jerkwater response. The clay is a good medium for comparing two loads. Talking to you is somewhat akin to reasoning with a rabid skunk. You put up a big stink, call names and then move on.
ok, smart ass, NAME a time when
penetration of CLAY means jack crap. If you THINK that a solid bronze 9mm , hollowbased and round nosed, cant outpenetrate your 158 gr jhp 357, you are full of it. Just because YOU are too ignorant to use a proper gun and load for a given situation doesn't mean everyone suffers from your handicaps. It just means you are ignorant,, and that's all it means.
penetration of CLAY means jack crap. If you THINK that a solid bronze 9mm , hollowbased and round nosed, cant outpenetrate your 158 gr jhp 357, you are full of it.
Just because YOU are too ignorant to use a proper gun and load for a given situation doesn't mean everyone suffers from your handicaps. It just means you are ignorant,, and that's all it means.1 - 6 of 6 Posts
