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if you zero the scope at 300 yds, you can aim at the top of his head at 1/4 mile and hit him in the guts/pelvis/thighs. Not bad, for a 4 lb gun that's no bigger than an UZI. :) with a free float tube, trigger job, anti cant level, gi bipod (clamped onto the tube, not the barrel) and match ammo, 14" groups are quite "doable" at 1/4 mile, With a match grade Noveske barrel and upper receiver, you can hold 8" groups, silenced. The shorty AR is a truly amazing little gun. given the hpbt, it's still got over 370 ft lbs at 1/4 mile. No, Garand, it aint going to bounch off of you. In fact, it will still kill you very dead at 1/2 mile, still, assuming a good hit. Only 60 ft lbs is needed for lethality, especially with a pointed, long for caliber 223 bullet.
 

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Free Float Tubes are generally heavier than rails now. No need to clamp anything, just put it on the rail. One can also monopod the magazine, which is more common and makes more sense with a subcarbine because standard capacity magazines are long.

Who needs a level for a 4-500 yard shot? That's absurd. I do this with subcarbines and Aimpoints frequently. Many people do; it's not a feat. Very routine shot at any of the team action matches.

You've never had a legal opportunity to shoot a Noveske anything. Groups under 8" at 400 yards are easy if you do your part. 14" is 6"+ over what one should be getting from M193 from that kind of a rig.
 

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Gun kid I am very familiar with the AR, mine has a 14.5 in barrel, plus a dedicated .22 LR upper and recently so I can shoot matches in the US, I have bought another upper with a 16" barrel so BATF will let me bring my AR into the US.Uploaded at Snapagogo.comUploaded at Snapagogo.com While 5.56mm is an excellent short range urban caliber, not all of us live in those geographical conditions. Given the area in which I reside, a .308 diameter bullet is very useful piece of kit.
 

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if you zero the scope at 300 yds, you can aim at the top of his head at 1/4 mile and hit him in the guts/pelvis/thighs. Not bad, for a 4 lb gun that's no bigger than an UZI. :) with a free float tube, trigger job, anti cant level, gi bipod (clamped onto the tube, not the barrel) and match ammo, 14" groups are quite "doable" at 1/4 mile, With a match grade Noveske barrel and upper receiver, you can hold 8" groups, silenced. The shorty AR is a truly amazing little gun. given the hpbt, it's still got over 370 ft lbs at 1/4 mile. No, Garand, it aint going to bounch off of you. In fact, it will still kill you very dead at 1/2 mile, still, assuming a good hit. Only 60 ft lbs is needed for lethality, especially with a pointed, long for caliber 223 bullet.
at what distance are you getting 8" groups?
 

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I think that the chances of Melvin ever acknowledging reality are slim to none. Due to the geographical variations found in North America and the 365 days temperature fluctuations on the continent, there is no 1 "do it all" firearm. Melvin's choice is based on his fantasy of almost 40 years, nothing will change. Sad really.
 
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The “69 grain HPBT” thing may be relevant to something I do in the near future. Now that I have my lower freed back up for my old-school 16” carbine with the pretty-much dedicated M4–2000 suppressor, I’m thinking about possibly making it into something of a dedicated “recce rifle” set up primarily for 69 grain PPU ammo.

Just had my 2nd foot surgery and I’m now stuck on the couch again for a while, and I’ve been watching a lot of YouTube videos on different LPVO scopes. Not sure yet if I’ll actually do it, but it’s something to kill time with right now. I have a couple of Leupold 1-4X duplex scopes that I don’t use anymore, so I could sell them off to pay for a more appropriate 1–6 or 1-8X with range-finding reticule, and have it complete with close to no money out of pocket.
 

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I doubt he is stabilizing those heavy bullets with his shorty....14" groups at 220 yards (1/4 mile) isn't very good. I would not accept that poor level of accuracy.
 

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I believe a quarter mile is 440; but 14 inches is still not great. To be expected with generic military ball stuff, sure.

But with HPBT match stuff and a decent optic, the goal should definitely be better than 3+ MOA.
 

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I believe a quarter mile is 440; but 14 inches is still not great. To be expected with generic military ball stuff, sure.

But with HPBT match stuff and a decent optic, the goal should definitely be better than 3+ MOA.
Yeah, I just realized what I posted and was going to come back and claim a my bad…

I know it’s 440, but my mind went to 220 because I just came back from shooting at the 200 line at the range.

8 inches would be better for 440, 14 is still worse than I’d want or accept.

guess I had a dumbass moment, but at least I will own my mistakes….:censored:
 

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Well I know all the long range shooting I had planned to get back into has been getting derailed.
And more lately due to stuff of mine, none gun breaking down or wearing out.
Plus the inflation of everything... except for my tires...🙄😛.
 

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I hear you, during the match I shot last weekend the match director asked me if I was coming back to shoot the match on the second day. When I said no, he asked why. I just responded "the cost of gas". I can think back 10 years when we used to shoot both days at this range. Since then gas prices have gone up over 60%.
 
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Been reading a lot of reviews and watching a lot of youtube videos on various LPVO scopes, as I don't have any AR with a magnified scope other than the 16" 22LR. I recently sold my only true 'long range' AR; the only one with a greater than 16" barrel and actual magnified scope, so thinking of setting up my old 16" one with an lpvo scope, since it's pretty much dedicated as 'the one' for my old M4-2000 suppressor with its proprietary mount. Thinking to just zero it with the suppressor in place and then leave the suppressor pretty much always on it. So far, leaning toward a 1-8x instead of a 1-6, mainly because of the added magnification helping to see things in detail better; not necessarily making a lot of difference in how far I can shoot something. A 1-8x optic should let me reach out as far as I'm ever going to, especially if I settle on a single primary load for it. Initially planning to see how it likes the PPU 69-grain BTHP as I have a fair amount of that on hand.
 
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John don't know if you'd find this place helpful or not.:

 

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John don't know if you'd find this place helpful or not.:


I have both Vortex and Leupold LPVOs. I like them both, basically either one works great and if I need to buy another, it will come down to what's in stock and what the price is...
 

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I’m leaning toward primary arms, largely because I like the looks of the ACSS reticule. Leupold variables have always been my favorite too; I have two 1-4X leupolds that used to ride on AR‘s that aren’t on anything now, and a 2–7X that I briefly considered stealing off my single-shot 300 blackout carbine. I thought maybe use it for this recce carbine and put one of the 1–4x’s on the single shot blackout. But for the same improved-visibility reasons that I’m leaning toward 1–8X for my AR upper, I hate to go down to the lower 1–4 on the single shot.

The vortex scopes get almost universally positive reviews, but I’ve never used one. The only vortex products I’ve ever owned are a couple Sparc AR red dots, and one of the old, original sparc red dots. Never used any of their magnified optics.

It’ll be a while before I actually do anything about it; I’m just one week into a probably two month recovery time from foot surgery. May have to experiment with different loads than the PPU 69 as well, for that matter. This upper has a 1:9 twist, and I don’t know how well it will like bullets that heavy.
 
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I am looking at primary arms for their .300 blackout scopes....I keep waffling on whether or not to get one.
 

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I bit the bullet and ordered the Primary Arms 1-8x first focal plane scope. After reading reviews, searching various forums, watching youtube videos, etc, I pretty much decided that was going to be the one; and for the last week or so I've been sporadically checking prices online. In checking prices, I saw that more & more places were out of stock. Optics Planet, Kenzie's, even Primary Arms themselves showed out of stock. Then a couple days ago, Primary Arms and Amazon (really Primary Arms' amazon store) showed in-stock and so I started watching them. They initially showed 13, then 8, then 6, and then when I checked last night they were down to three. That was enough of a prod to make me go ahead and pull the trigger on one last night.

Glad I did, as they now appear to be out of stock again. Will be a while before I can do anything with it (I may or may not get the surgery stitches removed from my foot today, and it'll be another month or so after they're removed before I'm back near full capability), but I'd hate to get to a point where I'm healthy enough to set up the gun and not be able to find one. Really think I'm going to like the ACSS Raptor reticule, especially in the FFP setup where it shrinks down to basically red-dot size when zoomed out to 1x, but gives a lot of information when zoomed in at higher powers.
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It's set to be 'on' for several common .223/5.56 loads, but they also have more information on their website if you want to use a load that is different. Things like using a different initial (chevron-tip) zero distance for various bullets at various velocities. This is an overview video that PA put out on it. Not everything about it, but a good overview. Hopefully I'll be as happy with it as I think I'll be.


Fwiw, if you haven't noticed, this out-of-stock situation is prevalent in all kinds of things. Even things that we use daily in our business, I'm to the point of sometimes having to buy from way-outside vendors, even amazon and ebay occasionally just to get what we need to take care of our customers & keep our guys busy. If there's anything you may really 'need' in the near term, I'd be looking into it. It would be easy to get caught flat-footed needing something only to find that it can't be had without either long waits or exorbitant prices.
 

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Yes, I can't even get new tires in the Brand, Grade and Type I want to put on my truck.
I can get the brand but not the grade. And that's from a national chain of tire shops.

Starting to give me recollections of the original Mad Max movie.
 
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