405 grs at 1500 fps, really, when it comes to the effect on the target. .5" hole all the way thru the chest of a BIG Hereford bull. Not just one lucky fluke, but 3 exit wounds for 3 shots with this load. So why bother to lug around an 8 lb .45-70.,when a 28 oz Lw Commander can do the same thing? Just rechamber it to 460 rowland, hollowbase the solid tin swc, size it .451", load it over 12.5-13.0 grs of Bullseye. No more recoil than .45 ACP 185 gr Plus P jhp's.