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Warning Questionable Reloading Data

rather readily. XXgrs of Bullseye does the trick. The bullet is cast of "no lead" solder, available at any plumbing supply store. It's 5% antimony, 95% tin. It's expensive, at $8 a lb, but you get 70 bullets per lb, ya know. How many would you ever need? Cast this alloy and use the Lee 155 gr swc mold, the bullets drop out at 100 grs. A centerdrill in a lathe, and they are hollowbased to 90 grs. They are very hard, and lead the bore very little. 90grs at 2000 fps is 800 ft lbs. The recoil is no worse than 200 grs at 950 fps, so it's still quite controlable in alloy framed, compact ccw guns.
 

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I wasn't even searching for .45acp or load data, but this thread popped up. Another example of odd but interesting.

90 grs, 2000 fps .45 ACP can be had rather readily. 12 grs of Bullseye does the trick. The bullet is cast of "no lead" solder, available at any plumbing supply store. It's 5% antimony, 95% tin. It's expensive, at $8 a lb, but you get 70 bullets per lb, ya know. How many would you ever need? Cast this alloy and use the Lee 155 gr swc mold, the bullets drop out at 100 grs. A centerdrill in a lathe, and they are hollowbased to 90 grs. They are very hard, and lead the bore very little. 90grs at 2000 fps is 800 ft lbs. The recoil is no worse than 200 grs at 950 fps, so it's still quite controlable in alloy framed, compact ccw guns.
Specifications above: 45acp, 90-grain bullet in an SWC shape, 12 grains of Bullseye, and ‘alloy framed, compact ccw gun”.

So let’s look at those. Lee doesn’t list a 155-grain .45 caliber bullet, but do believe they used to; or at least someone did a long time ago. The lightest .45-caliber bullet with an SWC profile that Lee lists now is 200 grains, so to be fair let’s use that one to get the basic shape, but manually change the weight from 200 grains to just 90 grains.

An “alloy framed, compact ccw gun” is at most a Commander, so to give this load data as much chance as possible for success, we’ll use the commander's 4.25” barrel length.

Max pressure for .45acp is 21,000 psi, but the +P version can safely go to 23,000 psi, so we’ll run with that since this is intended as a ‘serious use’ load. And to keep pressure for this load as low as possible, we’ll load this to the longest possible cartridge length; the full 1.275 inches that .45acp maxes out at.

And we put that in QuickLoad to see what it estimates as far as velocity, pressure, etc.
Product Rectangle Font Slope Line


Velocity – at the bottom-right, circled in blue. And it's right on the money. Not 2000 fps, but 1983; well within standard deviation variances. Looks good.

Maybe we’re onto something here. What’s the pressure on this? Still within the 23,000 psi max of 45acp +P by any chance?

Wonder of wonders, it's nowhere near the 21k psi of 45acp or even the 23k psi of 45acp +P. But surely it's less than a .45acp proof load..? Maximum for even proof loads is 30,450 psi for 45acp and 32,200psi for 45acp +P; surely we're still under that..?

No. Max PSI is shown in one of those scary red boxes, also circled in blue. And it's not 21k psi, not 23k psi, not 25k psi, not 30k psi, and not even 35k psi. This grenade runs more than the 40k psi maximum of .45 Win Mag. So if you’re willing to load your alloy commander (or other 45acp "alloy framed, compact ccw gun") to beyond .45 win mag pressure, you can do this. You may not survive it, but you can do it. At least once...
 

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Let me see, need I not even guess who "guest" probably was?🙄
If it weren't for what I witnessed last week at the public range I'd probably let this one slide some.
But when you see a NEF Single shot in .308 with a stick case and a primer that falls out when you help try and get the case tapped out.....well it doesn't give you much faith in the average novice handloader anymore.☹
 

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Given that some earned an embarrassing reputation for their ability with a handgun at the dawn of IPSC Competition, it is easily understandable why someone should consider a fantasy cartridge. Given that Melvin likes small bullets travelling at a fast speed, I've always wondered why he didn't just profess that the cheap, surplus 7.62x 25mm out of a Tokerev was the way to go. It would solve a lot of pain and anguish of developing a cartridge that could potentially blow up in his face. Melvin needs to concentrate on the important stuff like marksmanship etc.

 
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First, have to correct an error in my above post. The .45 win mag max pressure is 41,500 psi, not 40,000 psi; I was going from memory (often a mistake to do), and was off by not quite 4%. So mea culpa; the above load data doesn't exceed .45 win mag pressure after all, but is right at the top end of .45 win mag pressure. Which is still crazy.


...a cartridge that would almost certainly blow up in his face.
Fixed it.

Exceeding standard pressure by more than 90%, exceeding +P pressure by 75%, and even exceeding proof loads by more than 25% is nothing short of insane. Claiming that you do so is a crock. And recommending that others do it is either pure ignorance or pure evil. I'm assuming ignorance in this case.

If someone came right out and said, "if you load your .45acp with 90-grain bullets at .45 Win Mag pressure, you'd have a good defensive round" it would be obvious buffoonery; and that's literally what we have here. Someone trying this load data (especially in the recommended alloy-framed compact gun) is very likely to be injured or possibly even killed by a pistol slide in the teeth.
 

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I always thought that this form was about extending your life, not about shortening it. Reloading is a skill that can be taken into the future, plus if you are on a budget you will get more your dollar. In less than 10-12 hours on a single stage press I can handload 1,000 good quality cast lead pistol rounds for less than $225.00 in calibers like .38 Spl+P, .357 Magnum, 9mm or .38 Super, add another $25.00 and you can include .44 Magnum & .45ACP. I like to build in bulk, when you have to include a lathe and learning how to use it, the extra time required just isn't worth it. Does Melvine think everyone he meets after "SHTF" will be wearing body Armour? You don't have to carry the access around; you could cache it or even practice with it. Time to think outside the box.
 
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If it doesn't show, I've REALLY come to like QuickLoad. It's not any be-all, end-all authority, but it's very good for planning loads in various combinations. If you can't find the exact powder you usually use and want to compare alternatives, if you're curious about how much impact a different barrel length will have (running cartridges from a pistol vs. carbine especially), or if you just want to see how much effect changing a seating depth will have, it will give pretty good info.

It's $156, and I suspect it's saved me close to that much money - and certainly as much hassle and trial & error - in the 3 years or so I've had it. I'm not connected with them and don't get any kickbacks or anything, but it's been a great tool for the time I've had it.

 

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If it doesn't show, I've REALLY come to like QuickLoad. It's not any be-all, end-all authority, but it's very good for planning loads in various combinations. If you can't find the exact powder you usually use and want to compare alternatives, if you're curious about how much impact a different barrel length will have (running cartridges from a pistol vs. carbine especially), or if you just want to see how much effect changing a seating depth will have, it will give pretty good info.

It's $156, and I suspect it's saved me close to that much money - and certainly as much hassle and trial & error - in the 3 years or so I've had it. I'm not connected with them and don't get any kickbacks or anything, but it's been a great tool for the time I've had it.

I'll most likely get it after I'm relocated, yeah I know that sounds like a broken record by now, but anyway my only computer is my "mobile device" so I am limited to some things program and app wise.
But with some firearms projects I want to get into it definitely would be a plus to have.
 

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It's the seemingly little things that quickload can tell us that really help me. Reloading is a really fluid situation with a lot of interconnected variables, and even a small change often ripples into other areas. With .45Colt, one common problem is sooting of the fired cases due to low pressure, since most typical brass cases need around 12k psi chamber pressure to expand & seal up in the chamber upon firing. And with max pressure for the caliber being just 14k psi, that makes for a real narrow window of ‘acceptable’ pressure. (At least if you like being lazy about cleaning and don’t want to hassle with over-dirty chambers & brass.) Basically, when you load less-than-max loads in the 45 colt, it’s real easy to make them so low-pressure that the sooting gets bad.

To reduce sooting, pressure needs to be increased. But if you want mild loads for competition or playing around or whatever, it becomes a problem of how to increase pressure without increasing power & recoil. Checking quickload, it turns out that (if using a 300-grain lead bullet and 4.2 grains of red dot), if loading to the typical 1.580” the pressure runs a little under 11k psi. But if you load just a hair shorter oal, to 1.480”, and reduce the red dot from 4.2 to 4.0 grains, you get almost exactly the same velocity and energy (a small 10 fps increase), but the pressure gets bumped to over 12k psi. Same performance, but with less funky brass and chambers after firing.

And since I’m on my last can of red dot, if I have to change to titegroup (which is my next-most-appropriate powder), to get the same velocity at 1.58” seating depth only generates around 10.6k psi, and at 1.48” only hits around 11.4k psi.

Or going to what’s a pretty good all-around powder like Universal, in 45 colt, loading to the same velocity only generates 8.5 to 9.5k psi depending on seating depth; very low pressure and so very dirty.

Not deal-killers or anything, but good info to have when trying to keep pressure up in the ‘not sooty’ range while keeping recoil down in the ‘fun to shoot’ range.

The real moral of this story is that I need to find more red dot... 😕
 
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