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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
looking at your sights, controling the trigger, mean almost nothing, cause the fact is that nobody's ever proven that they could do better than hitting the 10" chest at 25 yds. Which is to say, they could do so over half of the time, while actually being shot-at. If it's beyond 10 yds, it's not civilian defense stuff. It's mercenary, military and swat cop stuff, and as such a waste of your time and money as a civilian. You're a damned fool to be trying such shooting without a silenced autorifle anyway So it this is your line of interest, the rifle is what you should be practicing with, not the pistol.

If you don't hunt with handguns, or compete in pointless accuracy-test matches, there's no need of better accuracy than 10" at 10 yds, and you can deliver that without much in the way of sight alignment. In fact, you can do it with no rear sight at all and just a bead for a front sight.

You can shoot A class in IPSC and be unable to reliably hit a 50 yd torso. :) In fact, you can do so in National and world level matches. What really matters is how fast you can get A zone hits at 10 yds on multiple targets, from the leather, and at least stay in the C zone at 25 yds. The C measures 14"x18", altho the bottom corners DO taper down a bit. If you can run a 25 yd El prez in 8 seconds, staying in the C zone and keeping more than half of your hits in the A zone, consistently, you'll be a top hand, (Limited Class, no use of comps or optic sights) So it's about speed, sub 5" groups at 25 yds, even for top level competition.

many top competitors would throw out all that they can do at 50 yds, and half what they can do at 25 yds,to be 25% faster at getting all A's at 10 yds, cause so much of the competion is involved with such shooting. The top hands are no more than 5% apart, at top matches. So a 25% gain in speed of hitting ,for the great majority of the shots in any given match would be a wondrous advantage to them, well worth giving up the longer range "performance".

and this goes triple for the non match shooter. What matters, for realsitic defensive skiill, is sub 10 ft performance, mostly the ccw draw and first hit, cause few people make you do more than point a gun at them (or fire and miss).
 

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90+% of what people "think" about handgun training is bs

looking at your sights, controling the trigger, mean almost nothing,
Gotta disagree here. Once you're out past 7-10 feet, trigger-control is definitely relevant.

there's no need of better accuracy than 10" at 10 yds, and you can deliver that without much in the way of sight alignment.
To an extent. I've posted video of shooting 12" plates at 35 feet (basically the same as 10" at 10 yards), with split times as low as 0.18 second in this thread: http://armslocker.com/handguns/52758-fun-more-video.html

So I do know whereof I speak and unlike some here, have offered video evidence of it. Fact is, while that kind of shooting absolutely doesn't take uber-precise or "hunting" levels of sight alignment, it absolutely does take sight alignment. (The low recoil of 9mm and retard-strong wrists also help.)
 

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looking at your sights, controling the trigger, mean almost nothing, cause the fact is that nobody's ever proven that they could do better than hitting the 10" chest at 25 yds. Which is to say, they could do so over half of the time, while actually being shot-at. If it's beyond 10 yds, it's not civilian defense stuff. It's mercenary, military and swat cop stuff, and as such a waste of your time and money as a civilian. You're a damned fool to be trying such shooting without a silenced autorifle anyway So it this is your line of interest, the rifle is what you should be practicing with, not the pistol.
Please list all your mercenary, military or SWAT experience that brought you to this conclusion.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
no, it was the colt .22 unit on the gov t model Airsoft groups about like wax .45's, 2" or a bit better at 20 ft. Haven't tried it at 10 yds. There's heavier pellets that might still be ok at 10 yds. A lot depends upon the setting of your 'hopup", in the gun. I GATHER (never had one apart as of yet) that the hopup is a vane, or vanes, that are set to just barely "nick" the top edge of the pellet, giving it backspin and stabilizing its flight, for a while. The airsoft CARBINES do very well hitting heads (using cover) at 20 yds. Outdoor use makes a big difference. Current pells are just 12 grs, there's a 20 gr variant. bought a 5000 rd bottle.
 
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