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Discussion Starter #1
At a match recently I said that I don't trust Glocks. My reason is simple. They have too many mysterious problems. I was immediately called a "Glock Basher" and asked to name these socalled problems.

Here is a brief summary condensed from The Gun Zone,

"Glock's Gravest Problem

A potentially ruinous event strikes the popular police pistol
First it was the April 1992 Product Upgrade, public disclosure of which was spurred by the AD Heard 'Round The World, but which had its origins in Glock's 1991 failure in the DEA "frisbee test."

Then it was the contentious issue of the Glock kB!s which the Smyrna, Georgia importer of the immensely popular Austrian-manufactured handgun has yet, more than 11 years after the catastrophic failures started happening on a regular basis, to properly address.

Next up were the defective guide rods of the Models 26 and 27 built between mid-September and late-October, 1999.

Then came the mysterious "Phase 3 Malfunctions" for which Glock, Inc. staunchly denied responsibility for almost six years before sucking it up and sending a mini-machine shop to City Island, NY to retro-machine over 26,000 of NYPD's Models 19.

Now things look grim indeed for the company which, in just 16 years, has not only captured a lion's share of the United States law enforcement market, but revolutionized the handgun industry.

First word reached public notice the week of 7 October 2002 with the story out of the Bernalillo County (New Mexico) that the Sheriff's Department had discovered a problem in some newer .40-caliber Glock pistols that could lead to breakages after prolonged use.

The Bernalillo County Sheriff's Department has discovered a problem with its new Glock .40-caliber semi-automatic handguns.

Deputy Robert Ray, the armorer who runs the department's shooting range, he says the department scrambled to inspect all of its Glocks on Monday after two weapons broke.

The inspection turned up two more broken guns. Ray says that on some newer versions of the gun, two pieces of steel in the lower portion of the weapon were improperly machined. Those pieces may be prone to breaking under the stress of repeated firing. (see sidebar for complete text)
The days after this news broke, a tip from a source in the 703 area code reached TGZ that "Glock has a big problem:"

Glock has recently discovered a serious structual problem with their guns. They redesigned their rear slide rails many years ago to make them longer, but for some reason shortened them again in the last couple of years©ˆ. This shorter rail, coupled with some bad steel and a machine that stamped the rails incorrectly, is now causing some rear rails to break off the guns©˜. When the rail breaks, it can lock up the gun. Not a good thing in a gunfight.

Glock recently went to the FBI and told them about this problem and quietly replaced over 700 frames. They apparently have no intention to tell their other customers about this problem. This problem affects ALL models of Glocks and TENS OF THOUSANDS OF GUNS. What about the DC Police with 4000 guns, NYPD with 35000 guns.

They have a major recall situation on their hands, but like their infamous "upgrade," this will never be called a recall. This needs to be investigated and publicized to make Glock take care of their other customers and not give preference to the big FBI.
And investigated it is, first with the FBI's Firearms Training Unit in Quantico, Virginia, and then with Glock, Inc. which has been telling its 9mm-issuing agencies that it was only the .40 S&W pistols, due to the higher pressure, which are at risk. Although the same defect is present on all the polymer pistols, the company doesn't think the 9 x 19mm cartridge "is powerful enough" to break the rail.

Glock Inc.'s initial solution, curiously published on the Glock Shooting Sports Foundation site as opposed to the official Glock site, offered the following:

We have made the decision that in the interest of customer service, replacement frames will be offered to anyone who has a firearm in this range ("a very small percentage of GLOCK pistols produced between September of 2001 and May of 2002") and decides to take advantage of this offer. The replacement frames will have identical serial numbers to our customer's original firearm except the numeral 1 will be added as a prefix.
 

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I don't think the problems are all that "mysterious" Glock had some QC problems with the frame cooling after the moulding procces and it let the frame rails break loose.

Getting the bugs out of new designs is nothing new at all and niether is factory QC problems for any company. The % of pistols with problems is actually rather low when you consider that Glock supplies more handguns to LE than anyother maker and the number of handguns they produce.

Folks will just have to come to grips with the fact that the Fantastic Plastic is here to stay. We ain't going back to 1911 when 42oz. 7 shot pistols, designed for calvary use, with obsolete the day they were produced features, where acceptable. No more than we are going to ever issue 1903 Springfields again.

Teuf,
 

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HB,

I'm sure Glocks have some problems. Name one brand pistol in major production that hasn't.

I've heard of police departments getting whole shipments of Smith&Wesson pistols and having to ship them all back as everyone of them didn't work right. And Lord knows the 1911 has had it's share of problems.

I have a Glock 22 in .40. I shoot in matches with my 1911, and MANY of the others have Glocks. I've never seen any of them jam while even my 1911 has a few times. I also have fired well over 3000 rounds, and right out of the box it has never had any kind of malfunction.

Add to that, notice how many LEO organizations have Glocks. They are pretty happy with it. Even the FBI has no plans to junk it (like they did the Smith&Wesson and Sigs.)

My Glock is the night stand gun. With Corbon 135s, pre-ban mags, night sights, and even the fancy Glock flashlight that fits the rails, it is one formable piece.

And HB, I don't think you are bashing Glocks, but you need to try one! They are really hard to beat.
 

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Well I don't like Glocks either, they aren't comfortable in my hand and after firing 4 mags of ,40 S&W the skin on the web of my hand was bleeding, to add to my discomfort that damn brass was launched almost into the next town. Just my opinion, I 'll stay w/ a 1911.
 

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Jeez Garand what on earth type of ammo did you shoot out of one?

I've fired exactly that much out of my Glock 20 in 10mm but with full power 10mm handloads of mine so far and while it did sting a bit it didn't get anywhere near to drawing blood. I've also owned a 23 in .40S&W that didn't bite that bad.

Almost sounds like the guy who made those rounds went to the GunKid School of Reloading.

Or, were you getting slide bit?
 

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Nope, it was done by the "checkering" on the frame of the pistol. Like I said it sux for a reloader looking for brass too.
 

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Dang. But do you remember the loads you were shooting in it? Factory, handloads or remanufactured stuff?
Sounds a bit hot from the cheese-grater effect on your hand and kicking brass into next the next town. I will admit that my Glock 10mm is almost as bad as my CZ-52 for putting brass into orbit but I've ben able to recover 99% of my 10mm brass as compared to 45% of the 7.62x25mm.
 

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dunno where YOU been, but the 28 oz, 10 shot 9mm Lw Commander has been available for 50 years now. The 24 oz lw Officer's has been available for 18 years. The .45 Glock weighs HOW much?:) If you don't expect much of your pistol, a Glock will serve you very well, especially the 9mm Glocks. That covers well over 99% of handgunners.
 

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I'm very happy w/ my 9mm Colt Combat Commander
 

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Poser Boy-Show me one aluminum frame Commander or Officers model that has gone a documented 170,000 rds without the frame cracking.

Besides as Teuf said who wants outdated designs that need to be tinkered with to be reliable self defense guns.

And Glocks are not the only guns with interesting problems:
 

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Any man-made creation can break - a thousand things can go wrong in manufacturing. The Glock is a good handgun although its company seems to have been less than honest about its problems. I'm a lifelong 1911 lover but admit that I can shoot the 9mm and 40cal Glock better than my 45. Don't know why. A shooting buddy has a couple of Glocks for sale and I'm going to look at them.

RIKA
 

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Hey if a Glock recall spurs a panic there should be tons more dumped onto the used market at dropping prices and I'll be happy to scoop a few more up.

.223 - those who don't expect much? LOL, tell that to Dave Sevigny who slew them all at IDPA Nationals and ran with the big dogs at IPSC Nationals with a lowly Glock. Virtually stock by the way.
 

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well now you all!

put me in a tailspin.


next handgun a glock #31, maybe not!

a buddy and me 'threw ' in on one when they came out in the 80's[i wasn't impressed] they were not avalible, but to l.e.o.[his brother] and were so broke after buying it @a gunshow that we probably only had $11 left for ammo[w.w.2 foreign crap] and went to shoot it @the police range[drizzling sunday afternoon] told my friend he could pay me my$150 asap.


[although i do love the concept,of a .357#31]

maybe another SIG.


THANKS.
 

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I'd be curious to see this broken down by caliber, as I've for years been a fan of the 9mm glocks, and for years I've also suspected (and stated openly that I've suspected) that all the non-9mm glocks are "under-sprung" and "under-engineered".

Making a Commander-size gun in 9mm isn't (or shouldn't be) that much of an engineering challenge. Making the same size gun while upping the performance specs is bound to be much more tricky.

The 357 and even .40, are examples of trying to shove "more" gun into the same package. The 10mm being shoved into the .45 size is the same problem. Even the 1911, which I still own two of, and love, and would trust with my life, wasn't designed for that much cartridge. (Anybody really expect a Delta Elite to have as long a lifespan as a Govt .45...? I wouldn't.)

This may sound like a reflexive rush to defend Glocks; it really isn't. There may well be valid problems with them. My point is "in what calibers?". I've never seen an instance of a 9mm or .45acp "kb". The few kb's I've seen actual pictures of, were all in .40 caliber. The NYPD issues (IMO) are self-disqualifying, since that agency had glock do non-standard things to their guns. Don't care "what" they had glock modify; the NYPD guns are all "special order" items, not an example of a weapon that anyone else is going to encounter. Can we learn from them, sure; just like we learn from racecar development. But there's not a direct correllation to what's available off the shelf.

If there's documentation of problems with off-the-shelf, unmodified, standard 9mm (or even .45) glocks, I'd be curious to see it. But since my only personal experience is with the 9mm (a 19 and a 26; had both for several years, put thousands of rounds through each), that's all I can personally attest to. And once I got rid of the post-ban 10-round magazine issues (those are another "non-standard" modification), and eliminated the one load they won't reliably feed (Federal 147-grain Hi-Shok), I can honestly say they've never failed in any respect. Feed, fire, extract, eject, slide-lock on empty, you name it. Never, not once; so I trust them. (Just as I still would my 1911's)


Honestly would be interested in info on problems with standard, off-the-shelf glocks in 9mm caliber, that aren't the result of a "findable & fixable" QC screwup of a certain production run. Short of that, it's like hearing about transmission problems with a same-model truck using a different engine. Makes me curious, but doesn't impact me directly until I either experience it personally or learn of some case where it does happen with the engine I've got.
 

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10 years ago, Joe Zambone said don't use his Mag Safe .45's in a Glock. The chamber was too "non supportive", and he wasn't talking about .45 Super type pressures, either.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
John in AR

Just roughly the NYPD problem effected only the 9mm Glocks the NYPD used. (they don't use Glock 17sO After being threatened with a law suit and the NYPD getting rid of their Glocks Glock finally admitted that the peoblem was real. Thet established a machine shop at the NYPD range and began making two cuts in the slide which do not solve the problem, but make it easier for the user to clear the malfuncyion,
The detonation (Kabooom problem) occyrs most often in Glock 20 series pistols chambered for .40 S&W,
The slide rail fracking problem occured in a large number of pistols in all calibers was caused by a massive breakdown in Glock quality control and could only be fixed by factory replacement of the reciever. Glock will not say how many deffective pistols were produced. The serisl number range has been posted at Glocktalk.com,
 

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Discussion Starter #18
"I'm sure Glocks have some problems. Name one brand pistol in major production that hasn't."

There probably is no brand of pistols that have not had some problems, but I know of none which have experienced such a series of major problems as Glock has in the last decade.

If aanyone knows of one that has please post the information. I would be interedted in seeing it.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
John in AR

Just roughly the NYPD problem effected only the 9mm Glocks the NYPD used. (they don't use Glock 17s) After being threatened with a law suit and the NYPD getting rid of their Glocks Glock finally admitted that the peoblem was real. Thet established a machine shop at the NYPD range and began making two cuts in the slide which do not solve the problem, but make it easier for the user to clear the malfuncyion,
The detonation (Kabooom problem) occurs most often in Glock 20 series pistols chambered for .40 S&W,
The slide rail breaking problem occured in a large number of pistols in all calibers was caused by a massive breakdown in Glock quality control and could only be fixed by factory replacement of the reciever. Glock will not say how many deffective pistols were produced. The serisl number range has been posted at Glocktalk.com,
 

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The Glock is the only advance in handgun design we have had in the last decade Hard Ball, which I believe is the reason they are under so much scutiny, which is really a good thing. Put Glock under the microscope, thats a good thing IMO, take a good design and put it in the cruciable.

God knows if folks would have put 1911 quality under a microscope maybe it would have evolved into a design that doesn't support a major industry of folks fixing them and making replacement parts to compensate for it's inherant flaws. You have to have a $2000 1911 to run with a $500 Glock, you take a factory $500 1911 and you will be lucky to have a pistol that runs let alone run like the plastic pistol does.

Something as basic as a combat handgun should run right from the box and not require a dozen mods to make it comfortable, accurate and reliable. Go to the 1911 forums and you will find nothing but complaints about thier new pistols that don't run, won't zero or flat broke, not just the cheapo $700 Colts, Kimbers and Springfields (no one expects them to run from the box) but the Wilsons, Bauers ect. Most folks believe they have to throw all the cast fire control parts in the trash and buy new mags to have a reliable pistol. I have owned and shot 1911's for 25 years and have just gotten tired of goofing around with them. There is genius in the Glock design, it isn't "Perfection" but it's 100 years ahead of the 1911.

Teuf,
 
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