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a good thing for a firearms fancier to obtain.

I read with some interest, today, the inquiry of a young lad, on these boards, about people's opinion of a CZ52 that his parent's were considering buying for him (hopefully that dad and mom actually were considering buying it for themselves and letting him shoot while supervised). I digress, so getting back to the point, I checked the link he supplied to an ad at GunBroker.com. It was for a CZ 52 probably a BRNO in 7.6x25 caliber. The starting price was $175.00 for this auction. I repeat that was the STARTING PRICE at which you would have to begin bidding, it could go higher, who knows how high with some knuckleheads who have money to waste.

Now if you bought the above gun, let's say for its already overpriced starting bid price of $175.00, you would have to add on shipping of about $25, then add about $25 (or more) for the transfer through an FFL holder. Let's forget taxes and figure that the you are buying it from someone in another state who does not collect tax from you. The pistol now cost $225 for you to acquire. There is a better way to buy a firearm like this, and that would be for you to obtain a Collector of Curios and Relics License from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The C&R goes for a fee of about $30.00 (well that is what I paid for my renewal, and I am pretty sure it is the same for a new one). This license is good for three (3) years. It allows the holder to have certain firearms classified as curios and relics sent directly to him without the need for the transfer to go through a FFL holder. (Lots of desirable firearms are on that list.) The fee for transferring a single gun through an FFL holder is anywhere from about $15 to $50 dependent upon where you live, and that is per gun! That can get expensive if you collect firearms. If, on the other hand, you apply for and are granted a C&R you could have had this gun sent directly to you from the dealer. This would have made the overpriced gun above cost $25 less by the figures I used for our example. You may think that is not a big savings, but if you buy 10 guns this way in a year you could save ten times that money or $250 using the figures in the example.

Of course you know I am about to tell you how you will save even more money. If instead of going to GunBroker.com to look for that pistol, you instead looked at some of the advertisements from some of the bigger dealers/wholesalers, you would have seen that this pistol is advertised for anywhere from about $89.99 to $119.99 in an equal or better condition than the one in the auction. That $175 starting price is not looking so good now is it? That is when the same gun, in reportedly the same or better condition, can be had for so much less money. Of course both ways of purchasing this pistol would incur shipping charges, and delivery to a Federal Firearms License holder or to the holder of a Collector of Curios and Relics license (C&R). You choose which, but let me help you by showing you some figures.

Now Let's do the math and see what we could save by getting a C&R.

$30.00 - for the C&R (good for three years).
$89.95 - for one in Very Good Condition (relatively the same as Fine as per
GunBroker's ratings page) We get the cheaper one because we
also allowed that the gun at auction went for its lowest
acceptable bid
$25.00 - shipping
_______
$144.95 - Total

Remember that without a C&R that gun from the auction would cost you at least about $225.00 The difference between $225.00 and $144.95 is: $80.05.
Guess what you could do with that $80.05, you could buy lots of ammo for the pistol, probably from 750 to 1,000 rounds.

Now buy a second gun a month or so after the CZ52. Lets say a nice Yugoslavian SKS. I bought three of them from a dealer/wholesaler whose advertisement I found either on the web or in Gun List or Shotgun News. I paid about $139.00 each in unissued condition. I recently went to a local firearms dealer and was pretty shocked to see ones in much worse condition than mine selling for over $450 each! Sure you can get them at a better price from an auction like GunBroker.com where they are usually readily available, but if you don't have that C&R lets see how much it would cost for three of them, from a dealer:

$139.00 x 3 = $417.00 for the rifles
$ 25.00 x 3 = $ 75.00 for the FFL transfer fees
$ 35.00 = $35.00 Shipping for all three shipped in same box
________
$527.00

Now even if the FFL holder gives you a break to lets say $15 for each transfer, that is now $30 less or a total of $497.00.

Why not just remove that fee virtually altogether, and if you had already had your C&R when you bought the CZ52 a month before you bought these rifles, then that is pretty much just what you accomplished. I say so because there is only a one time fee for that license in its three year life. In other words now those same rifles shipped to you would only cost $527 - 75 = $452. Even the difference in cost with the discounted FFL transfer would be: $45. So you could get a $5 to $75 savings on that one purchase. That money is equal to a good amount of ammo for that rifle.

The bottom line is that if you plan to buy a few firearms that are on the curios and relics list over the course of the next three years, it may be well to your benefit to apply for a C&R license. Also if you live in an area where FFL holders charge you exorbitant fees to make a firearms transfer, such as here in NY where is can easily cost $40 - $50 per gun, then you really should consider getting a C&R.


Best regards,
Glenn B
a good thing for a firearms fancier to obtain.

I read with some interest, today, the inquiry of a young lad, on these boards, about people's opinion of a CZ52 that his parent's were considering buying for him (hopefully that dad and mom actually were considering buying it for themselves and letting him shoot while supervised). I digress, so getting back to the point, I checked the link he supplied to an ad at GunBroker.com. It was for a CZ 52 probably a BRNO in 7.6x25 caliber. The starting price was $175.00 for this auction. I repeat that was the STARTING PRICE at which you would have to begin bidding, it could go higher, who knows how high with some knuckleheads who have money to waste.

Now if you bought the above gun, let's say for its already overpriced starting bid price of $175.00, you would have to add on shipping of about $25, then add about $25 (or more) for the transfer through an FFL holder. Let's forget taxes and figure that the you are buying it from someone in another state who does not collect tax from you. The pistol now cost $225 for you to acquire. There is a better way to buy a firearm like this, and that would be for you to obtain a Collector of Curios and Relics License from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The C&R goes for a fee of about $30.00 (well that is what I paid for my renewal, and I am pretty sure it is the same for a new one). This license is good for three (3) years. It allows the holder to have certain firearms classified as curios and relics sent directly to him without the need for the transfer to go through a FFL holder. (Lots of desirable firearms are on that list.) The fee for transferring a single gun through an FFL holder is anywhere from about $15 to $50 dependent upon where you live, and that is per gun! That can get expensive if you collect firearms. If, on the other hand, you apply for and are granted a C&R you could have had this gun sent directly to you from the dealer. This would have made the overpriced gun above cost $25 less by the figures I used for our example. You may think that is not a big savings, but if you buy 10 guns this way in a year you could save ten times that money or $250 using the figures in the example.

Of course you know I am about to tell you how you will save even more money. If instead of going to GunBroker.com to look for that pistol, you instead looked at some of the advertisements from some of the bigger dealers/wholesalers, you would have seen that this pistol is advertised for anywhere from about $89.99 to $119.99 in an equal or better condition than the one in the auction. That $175 starting price is not looking so good now is it? That is when the same gun, in reportedly the same or better condition, can be had for so much less money. Of course both ways of purchasing this pistol would incur shipping charges, and delivery to a Federal Firearms License holder or to the holder of a Collector of Curios and Relics license (C&R). You choose which, but let me help you by showing you some figures.

Now Let's do the math and see what we could save by getting a C&R.

$30.00 - for the C&R (good for three years).
$89.95 - for one in Very Good Condition (relatively the same as Fine as per
GunBroker's ratings page) We get the cheaper one because we
also allowed that the gun at auction went for its lowest
acceptable bid
$25.00 - shipping
_______
$144.95 - Total

Remember that without a C&R that gun from the auction would cost you at least about $225.00 The difference between $225.00 and $144.95 is: $80.05.
Guess what you could do with that $80.05, you could buy lots of ammo for the pistol, probably from 750 to 1,000 rounds.

Now buy a second gun a month or so after the CZ52. Lets say a nice Yugoslavian SKS. I bought three of them from a dealer/wholesaler whose advertisement I found either on the web or in Gun List or Shotgun News. I paid about $139.00 each in unissued condition. I recently went to a local firearms dealer and was pretty shocked to see ones in much worse condition than mine selling for over $450 each! Sure you can get them at a better price from an auction like GunBroker.com where they are usually readily available, but if you don't have that C&R lets see how much it would cost for three of them, from a dealer:

$139.00 x 3 = $417.00 for the rifles
$ 25.00 x 3 = $ 75.00 for the FFL transfer fees
$ 35.00 = $35.00 Shipping for all three shipped in same box
________
$527.00

Now even if the FFL holder gives you a break to lets say $15 for each transfer, that is now $30 less or a total of $497.00.

Why not just remove that fee virtually altogether, and if you had already had your C&R when you bought the CZ52 a month before you bought these rifles, then that is pretty much just what you accomplished. I say so because there is only a one time fee for that license in its three year life. In other words now those same rifles shipped to you would only cost $527 - 75 = $452. Even the difference in cost with the discounted FFL transfer would be: $45. So you could get a $5 to $75 savings on that one purchase. That money is equal to a good amount of ammo for that rifle.

The bottom line is that if you plan to buy a few firearms that are on the curios and relics list over the course of the next three years, it may be well to your benefit to apply for a C&R license. Also if you live in an area where FFL holders charge you exorbitant fees to make a firearms transfer, such as here in NY where is can easily cost $40 - $50 per gun, then you really should consider getting a C&R.


Best regards,
Glenn B
 

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Good post Glenn. The C&R is an excellent thing for a collector to have.

RIKA
 

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One problem I have,actually the only problem I have w/the whole C&R thing is that I still need to have a purchase permit which takes 5-8 business days for EVERY handgun I buy before I can buy the handgun.Stupid Mi laws.The only way around that is for me to pay the approx $200 tax & get a CHL.Damn stupid laws.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ah yes, State Laws. Even though you hold a C&R you must abide by all applicable state laws and regualtions concerning firearms. Luckily for me I can get over a lot of these because as a federal LEO I am not required to have a pistol license in NYS to buy a pistol. The local PD Pistol Licensing section told me I would not require anything but the C&R to make purchases of hangun type curios or relics through mail order. Yet I have only purchased rifles. I now have 1 Yugo SKS and 2 Nagant M44s. (I sold 2 of the SKS rifles I bought otherwise I would have 5 curios and relics.)

I am happy you brought up the issue because it is an important thing to know if you have a C&R.

As for the CHL I am guessing that means concealed hangun license. I would buy it, you never know when the price will go up. Sort of just like my NRA dues. I wish I had become a life member about 5 or 10 years before I did, as it was cheaper then.
 

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Glenn Bartley said:
As for the CHL I am guessing that means concealed hangun license. I would buy it, you never know when the price will go up. Sort of just like my NRA dues. I wish I had become a life member about 5 or 10 years before I did, as it was cheaper then.
You guessed correctly on the CHL.Suprisingly,the renewal of said liscence has gotten cheaper this year.What burns me is that while my handgun collection is registered w/the Mi State Police I still need a permit(or have to pay a tax & THEN get it registered)to buy handguns.Like I'd need a new gun to commit a crime.Shortsighted laws.

The C&R is an excellent program though.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I may retire next year, I'll be eligible anyhow. It makes me wonder what it will be like to purchase a firearm without my credentials. If only I could hit the lotto before I retire.
 

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Glenn Bartley is right on the money. I got my C&R 8 months ago, and have saved upwards of $1,000.00 on Mausers, SKS's, and Mosin-Nagants. If you like old military, you definitely should apply. I get fliers every week from about a dozen importers and distributors advertising the latest in C&R buy's. We'll see what happen's with the AWB sunsetting, but I would bet the C&R market is going to break wide open.
 

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You know,it's too bad that there aren't(supposedly)any M14s still in the arsenal that aren't needed for front line duty.I think that a de-full autoed M14 would be the berries.

I'd be willing to bet that a relaxation of some of the import bans could keep the C&R people broke for many,many years.Don'tsee it happening anytime soon though.
 

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Sad to say .41 Mag., I watched 120 of them (brand-spanking new) cut up with torches. The Government is never going to release them for private sale. Unless the full-auto mechanism in the receiver was welded shut, they are just too easy to convert to full auto. I used to convert the blocked ones in about two minutes to full auto, when I was in the military, and it was legal. Too bad, a really accurate rifle that I would like to get my hands on. I fired expert with it in basic training. I was hitting 3/4 size silohoutte (SP?) targets at 400 Meters 9 shots out of ten. It's a great rifle.
 

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Damn TerryG,you just brought a tear to my eye.
 

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Terry G said:
Sad to say .41 Mag., I watched 120 of them (brand-spanking new) cut up with torches. The Government is never going to release them for private sale.

That's just so wrong on so many levels. . .
 

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41mag said:
Damn TerryG,you just brought a tear to my eye.
Look at this, I had to supervise the destuction. :headbang:
 

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Aaaaaagh!My heart!My heart!

medic!


Grrrr.Stupidity knows no bounds.
 
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