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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've posted this scenario before on at least one other board, so no cheating...

You are out at a mall or a resturant, you're sitting down eating a meal. There's a noise like a balloon popping.

You look around and everything seems to be ok. But then you notice a small package next to a garbage can that appears to have burst from the inside.

What do you do next, and why? (There are a number of things you should do, try to list as many of them as you can, and why you are doing them.)

Have fun....

:devil:
 
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Drench my napkin in my glass of water, cover my mouth and nose and try to leave by the nearest exit. Immediate response is critical. Would probably yell "Get out" as I was leaving. The wet napkin might possibly keep me from ingesting toxins. When I was outside would call 911.

RIKA
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
what do you do once you are outside?
where do you go and why?
 

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Call 911 and try to get to a hospital. Describe what I heard, smelled and tasted, exactly what I remembered happening. Those impressions could be critical in treating others.

RIKA
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm going to wait and see who else bites on this one before I give "my official" answer, and describe what you are likely to encounter...

:devil:

Actually, I changed my mind... see next post.
 

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1] yell...who farted! then go into a JOHN CANDY style rant like the rats were upsetting your dining experiance, all the while dragging wife/children in tow to the closest exit/furthest away from suspect chem/bio package


2] yell... who farted! order another double, and request the lounge singer/piano player that just so happens to have a canary/parrot on their shoulder to investigate, observing the effects on the bird as he does your bidding!



3] yell...poison gas attack and head to the nearest exit like a stripedd[s.p]
ass ape with his head on fire, all the while dragging wife/children/lobstertail/ribeye/scotch on the rocks in tow!


needless to say i'm not tipping let alone paying.


I really don't know, i'd like to read others replies to this interesting thread!



thanks.
 

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get the hell out of there, holding my breath, telling familiy to do same. Get to an anonymous phone, tell 911 about it. Have everyone take a shower, post haste. Have everyone get a physical, telling the MD about a possible exposure to biological agents, If it was a chemical agent, you'd be screwed long before you could get medical attention.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ok, some things to be aware of:

1) you are most likely contaminated with either a biological or chemical agent. If it was a chemical agent, most likely you'd go symptomatic fairly quickly.

2) anything and anyone you come into contact with is now also contaminated. (every where you go, you are spreading it further.)

3) pretty much everything you have on will need to be destroyed.

4) if you decide to go to the hospital, under NO circumstances do you touch the door or enter the building. If you do, you will personally SHUT DOWN THE HOSPITAL AND RENDER IT USELESS. Once you go through the door, you have exposed everyone inside to whatever it is. That means the doctors, nurses, etc are potential carriers and are out of play.

5) DO NOT ENTER THE HOSPITAL - See #4 above.

6) Stand in the parking lot and call 911. Tell them where you are and what happened. After making you stand around for a while, some people in hazmat suits will show up with some garbage bags. They will make you strip - this is not the time for any modesty of any sort. do it, do it quickly. All your stuff will go into the bags. You probably will never see any of it again.

Hopefully they will have brought out the decon kit. and you will be behind a temporary screen. They will spray you down with some of the foulest smelling stuff in the world and scrub you pretty good - several times. then they will put you in a funky suit of your own to keep you from spreading whatever it is you were exposed to.

Meanwhile, WWIII has started all around the city you're in. All kinds of folks will be mobilized, gear will start showing up. Etc.


Back to the begining. In a perfect world, you would convince everyone in the area to stay put. The mall people would lock the doors, no one in or out until the emergency people arrive. (this is probably the most assinine, unrealistic, wishful thinking in the world - ain't going to happen.)

So, you need to make sure you don't spread whatever it is any further, don't pass it to your loved ones, and don't take the hospital out of play.

If you called 911, as you left the area, all the hospitals should go on lockdown anyway and you couldn't enter if you wanted.

There's a lot more, but how's this for a start?

:devil:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
andy said:
get the hell out of there, holding my breath, telling familiy to do same. Get to an anonymous phone, tell 911 about it. Have everyone take a shower, post haste. Have everyone get a physical, telling the MD about a possible exposure to biological agents, If it was a chemical agent, you'd be screwed long before you could get medical attention.
Anyone who touches that phone after you is now contaminated. Shower may or may not do any good, but where is that contaminated water going?

The building you entered is contaminated now simply by you entering it. The doctor? You just took him and his office out of circulation.

So far you are doing what the bad guys want. You are spreading the agent and taking the responders out with you.

you're correct about the chemical agent.

Btw your vehicle is now contaminated. even if you managed to shower the agent off of you, the instant you got back into your vehicle, you're screwed.

:devil:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This is where it starts getting ugly.

To contain the spread of whatever it is. The best thing to do would be to isolate the area and prevent potential carriers from getting out.

The conspiracists will go ape. Big brother is putting everyone in camps! Etc Etc. Some will find away to get out. If they are infected, game over.

Hopefully the good guys will ID the biological agent(s) involved and will be able to treat it. Otherwise, well you get the idea.

:devil:
 

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Oh gee, we're screwed whatever we do. This would be a good time for prayer.

RIKA
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'd rather face having a small nuke detonated in a city somewhere. Yes, a lot of people could die, yes it would be horrible, yes it would cause economic hardship, etc.

But, when it was all said and done, you could dig up the debris and dispose of it somewhere (bury it under a mountain and tons of concrete. The you could start over and it would be over.

With a bio weapon, at some point it becomes self-sustaining (or has the potential to) and the attack isn't over and it can keep on popping up.

:devil:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Raider said:
Oh gee, we're screwed whatever we do. This would be a good time for prayer.

RIKA
Prayer yes, definately.

The best thing to do, is communicate, confess, and comply.

Communicate - call 911
Confess - tell them you may be infected
Comply - do what they tell you.

Your best bet is to get medical care asap. But you need to do so in a way that does not jeopardize the treatment or make the problem worse.

The worse thing would be to try and remain anonymous. I don't care how much you hate or distrust the government, the doctors will be your only hope on this one.

:devil:
 

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This is a most excellent post Aslan - and very thought provoking.

Thank you.

RIKA
 

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hmmmmmmm...................sounds bleak,
I think the best thing would be prevent it ever happening. I think if we found any illegal “aliens” in the USA the we should, give them a smile a wave and a plan ticket the hell out of here. Sorry if I seam insensitive to illegal immigrants but or gov has enough trouble protecting is Legal citizens much less illegal immigrants.

Well I guess I should get of my soap-box and get some sleep.

L8ter
 

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Sorry I am about to jump on someone's answer or part of it:

Stand in the parking lot and call 911.
Well if this was not some sort of a silly trick or joke question, then this would be one of the worst things that you could do! In the event that this is related to terrorism and is a ruse to get people going, guess where most of them would go - right to the parking lot. As they congregate near the exit door or in the parking lot entrance, the real blast goes off killing many. This is in fact how the blast was accomplished Australian tourists on some filthy vacation dump of an island nation (I obviously forget where - was it Bali???) within the last year or so. A blast went off inside injuring some, but the big blast went off several minutes later out in the parking lot to which most of the people fled after the inside blast. If you ever have to vacate because of an emergency that may be due to terrorism, then do not congregate with other people because if there is a secondary attack, this is most likely where it will come right in the massed crowd.


Now back to the diner:

If I heard the noise and then saw the package I would immediately assess the situation. As I assess I would either be already taking action or deciding none was necessary. If I had any suspicion, even just a gut feeling, that the noise I had heard was the bag/package by the trash, and I also suspected some sort of an attack or other danger, I would likely vacate the premises. It is possible that this could be a number of things such as a bio, chemical or explosive attempt or it could be nothing; but if there was even a hint of bad things it would be better to act and to exit the area. I would not approach the item, and certainly would not touch it. You touch it, it go boom, you in pieces fly across the room...

Note if I did not really suspect some sort of attack, I would still attempt to find out to whom this package belonged to find out what was inside. If no one claimed it, and the waiters knew nothing about it, I likely would become suspicious and probably leave. if someone said that a shady character who had been chanting prayers in the corner booth up until a few minutes ago just left it as he walked out - well you have the picture, don't you - a fat middle aged man getting out fast.

As to others getting contaminated, if it is bio or chem, tough stink pickles! I am getting out in case it also might be an explosive. I would exit by the exit furthest away from the item and that was accessible without passing the item. I would alert others also, as I was leaving or possibly advise them to leave. I would try to be the first out as anyone waiting in ambush would quite possibly not go for the first person but wait for someone behind. Even if they chose to hit the first out, it would be a calculated risk on my part. Before leaving I would give a good quick scan to the outside if possible. I would exit low through the door and get away from the fatal funnel (outline of the door) as quickly as possible. As I exited I would take evasive action and head away utilizing cover and concealment. I would try to stay out of the light, and head to a secure darkened area behind cover, Dependent upon the situation I may or may not have my firearm out.

As far as a napkin over the face, I don't know if the second or two to wet a napkin and put it over my face would be better or worse as time spent inside. A gas mask would be better, and yes I often have mine with me in NYC when working. (I really need to get a family pack, or at least escape hoods.) Don't think just because something went pop that, if it actually was a terror device, the contents have already contaminated you or done so sufficiently to harm you, or that the item actually worked. I am not assuming it did not contaminate me either, but I am assuming that I would be safer away from a possible device that may not have gone off properly and is still ticking so to speak. As I said if I suspected some sort of an attack I would get out, and take my loved ones with me. Please note that I keep stressing if I suspected some sort of an attack. I am not running for every little thing, nor grabbing my gun when a firecracker goes off, but I sure am going from yellow alert to orange and maybe even to red if I get hinked up. When awake, I am never at the white level (totally at rest - not even most of the time I sleep) and that is the trained LEO and trauma survivor in me. My post 9/11 my yellow level is more at the alert that was pre 9/11 yellow level. I am not talking about government alert levels either, but levels of alertness by which LEOs have been trained for years. Levels of alertness by which we need to conduct ourselves as law enforcement officers if we expect to arrive alive at the end of the shift. Not only do we teach other agents to be this way at work, but to be this way all of the time or as much of the time as is possible. To borrow the answer of the question, 'What is the price of freedom?', let me just say I am talking about: 'Perpetual vigilance'!

From outside I could better assess the whole situation. Are people dropping dead inside or outside? Are others leaving? Is there an attack on the congregated mass that just fled? If so what type, by who, and from where? Are there suspects in the area? Are suspicious people waiting in cars down the block, or in doorways, or on roof tops nearby? This is all info to call into authorities along with a description of the noise, the package, the restaurant and so forth. Think do you even know the exact location and name of the restaurant you were inside just moments before! Yes, of course I am calling 9/11, but not until I am safe and have assessed the situation enough, in a brief time, to give them as much info as possible based upon such assessment. As all this goes on, I am having the family keep their eyes and ears open, also assessing. They would also need to assess their own conditions every minute or so at most for any possible signs of contamination. Keep them busy helping you in this way, to help avoid a panic situation.

Now back to spreading bio or chem agents. As far as spreading any bio or chem agents, tough stink pickles (yes they are brown and smelly). The agents are not contained inside a building like a diner anyhow. You must also bear in mind that the pop may have been a failed detonation of a bomb, and that the bomb may be in a sort of "hang fire" state, just like when you firearm goes click and no pop or only a primer pop emanates from the muzzle. Wait till a count of ten, then open the action, or the round may still go off as you open it - ouch. Not a common occurrence, but it has been known to happen, and just imagine the quality of some of the stuff a kook or terrorist uses; sometimes great top shelf and other times bargain basement.

Back to bio or chem, if it is bio, chances are it will be an agent that takes time to effect the victims. Many viral and bacterial, agents take time to effect the victim adversely. If that bag had white powder, gas, smoke, bad smell, or a mist out of it, I would recommend a decontamination with plenty of water. First though take off clothing, brush of any loose powder from your skin and hair, then apply copious amounts of running water. Even if it is a chemical that reacts with water, if you got the majority of it off, then my guess is that running water and plenty of it will possibly wash it off before it can harm you, but I am hopeful it would not be an agent that reacts violently to water. Now if it is really cold outside, well wait for help if you are not seeing any ill effects.

There are other things I might do, but most everything I would do would depend upon my initial and then continuing assessmentS of the situation as it unfolded.

All the stuff about isolating and confining is the stuff of too many movies and horror stories. The truth of the matter is with chem attacks the elements usually have to be dispersed in certain ways for maximum effectiveness, and any other type of dispersal is usually only pretty much ineffective (if at all) to somewhat effective. Most liquid, and powdered chemicals are also fairly easily contained, especially in a small scale attempt as would likely be the one just described. Most aerosols would not be spread effectivly either. Gas would likely be of a very small scale, and would dissipate rapidly. If I have it on me well sorry if you drop dead after you try to help me once I am outside, but if the authorities are called on this one, they will spread the stuff themselves as would have the AC or heating unit in the diner, or the other patrons or workers in the diner. They are simply not covering the diner with Saran Wrap (LOL) because of a burst balloon or a call about a suspicious package unless there is some prior info about this event or other recent similar events, or you can give a pretty darned good description of what sounds like a chem or bio attack. A popping noise and a burst bag that may or may not have been the source of that sound is not going to get the full scale CDC and military type of a response. That would be paranoia. Paranoia is almost a good thing up to a point, but not when over done for every little thing. It is almost ok as when the post offices were closed down due to suspicious white powder, but that was only after Anthrax attacks had been confirmed.

Of course you could always ask WHO FARTED in a loud voice (as already suggested by someone) to see the reaction of the crowd, and then just keep stuffing your face and enjoying the aroma.
 
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hooray at last...
 

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By the way, anyone here can second guess me, but based upon my training and experience to date, you are not changing my mind unless you have verifiable data and lots of it to debunk my training. So I will assess and act, and reassess and act, and so on accordingly, based upon my training and experience. I will not panic, but will survive, or at least be trying to survive the best way I know how when I die or when I start gagging from those farts... :nyah:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I meant the parking lot of the hospital - sorry if this wasn't clear.

Also, yep, we've gamed where the terrorist plant bombs in a mall, get everyone to run outside where the real bombs are set to go off either on command detonation or on a timer...

sorry for the confusion.

:devil:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Good response Glenn.

You probably gave the long answer to my overly short and simplified scenario.


:devil:
 
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