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Discussion Starter #1
and the only DA shotgun aint exactly taking the world by storm, either. The longarms all require the manipulation of a thumb safety, and if shtf, the pistol will have VERY minor role, indeed. If working a safety is ok in the FAR greater threat-zones of full bore battle, WHY is it such a big deal for lames who will only have to POINT the gun at the attacker (9 out of 10 x), hmm? If safety is such a big deal, they could leave the chamber empty or lower the Hammer. The Glock's safety record aint a LICK better than the cocked and locked SA auto's record, and there's 10x as many of the SA auto's on duty as their are Glocks.

remember KISS? Why teach yourself to NOT manipulate a safety, when you DO have to do so with your longarms? That's an invitation to "forget' to work the longarm's safety, when times are MUCH more dangerous than "normal' times. Once it's RIFLE time, dude, you aint bluffing anyone anymore, the way you can bluff punks today.
 

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lots of stuff there.

There are no glock type triggers in long arms, but how many Siglike triggers are there? Does lack of a feature in a longarm directly equate to that very feature being obsolete or otherwise undesirable in a defensive sidearm? If so, how many "safe=up, fire=down" safeties that you SHOULD ride like the 1911 are there in longarms? Many of the longarms that I'm familiar with have button style ones near the trigger. Others, on the right side.

I'm not as familiar with longarms as handguns, but if you have two distinct manuals of arms anyhow (location of safety does qualify), shouldn't you learn how to use them both as-is.

Further, longarms are frequently carried on slings, exposing the short, light trigger to twigs, gear, everything else. Handguns are carried in holsters, the good ones should absolutely protect the trigger from anything I can think of that would cause the weapon to discharge. If the handgun was worn with an exposed trigger, I'd say safety engaged would be a must. If the rifle was stored in a rigid container, with the possible need to bring it into action quickly, would it be prudent to have the safety on as well?

To me, longarms are more offensive in nature in the sense that you choose the time to attack. The one exception would probably be home defense, and despite the short, light trigger, my plan would be to grab weapon and disengage safety sooner, rather than wait to disengage the safety until the weapon breaks 45 degrees like so many train on the 1911.

To compare HANDGUNS, which are usually defensive in nature for all intents and purposes (why not use a longarm if it's premeditated?) to each other is also interesting. SAs are used by many, granted, but how about safetyless DA/DAOs like most serious revolvers, Sigs, Glocks, etc? "Accidental" discharges that are NOT related to negligence are basically a thing of the past, and any weapon weilded by a klutz or fool can be dangerous, regardless of safety...

I agree with KISS. Point and shoot is about as basic as you're going to get.

If training will teach you the difference between the safety on your 1911 and the one on your AR or SG, then it will also teach you the difference between your SIG, revolver or Glock and your AK or Rem 700.

btw, not sure where you come up with 10x the number of SAs on duty vs. Glocks. I think Yavapai Sherrif out here is the only agency I know close to me that issues 1911s. The city I live in allows officers to carry what they qual with, the vast majority are split between SIG and Glock, the remainder are all revolvers, HKs Berettas, 1911s, etc. Besides, the folks that KNOW and CHOOSE the 1911 are hardly using out of the box pieces, probably few cost under $1000. The fact that a $500ish pistol even closely compares should be a testament to its design. Some guys that KNOW and can choose, choose Glock for a reason that isn't simply because "it's what their students learn." I believe Jim Crillo is one of them, saying if he had to do it over, it would be a G21 on his hip. Blackwater is issuing G19s to their people as a sidearm to the M4, so there also must be something they've figured out in training.

I think the safety feature is more for longarms which, as I said, are frequently carried with open trigger guards. When the safety flies off, all hell breaks loose. If you have to make the bummer transition to a sidearm, I'd think you'd want it to be out and ready to go no matter how you grip it.

I'm not trying to make the case for Glocks in particular, it's just convenient because the frequent argument about them is that their lightER trigger than other DA/DAOs makes them a prime candidate for NDs relative to the others.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
there's less than 1 million Commissioned cops in the US, not that many of them use a Glock, either. There's 40 million or more handgun owners in the US. So the Glock % aint really all THAT high, regardless of what Gaston would have you believe. :) Lots, of the cops use Glocks, but probably not half.

There's maybe 2million Glocks worldwide. There's 8 million 1911's, probably nearly as many P-35's if not more, millions of Stars, Llama's, Tokarev's, and tens of millions of SA.22 auto's, many of the latter are the ONLY gun many people have, so yes, they ARE 'on duty" as defensive guns. Cops are a TINY fraction of those who keep handguns 'at the ready, dude. Most of the world's civilians can't, but they can in Norway, S. Africa (if they are white, anyway) Greenland, Isreal, Iceland, a few other countries. Lots do so illegally, too of course.

Then there's the military guys, many of whom cock and lock their pistols, the second they get out of sight of the lifers. :) I always did, for sure. MANY Tens of millions of guys in the world's militaries, ya know. If only 1% do as I did, it's still probably several million guys with cocked and locked SA autopistols.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
nearly all AK users have no CHOICE but to walk around

with the safety disengaged. It's either that, or let ALL enemies have an extra 1 second in which to kill you. However, I greatly prefer to have that safety engaged, and it's one of the reasons AK's suck,unless you drop $100 or so on having a smith create a properly positioned and shaped thumb safety.

The AR's safety is very handy, ya know, and it's available in an AMBI version, too. About the time you compare prices of AK with custom trigger job, custom luminous sight installation, custom ambi safety, it costs JUST as much as does an AR with DROP IN parts for those modifications, and your AK will never be as lw, nor have as useful a .22 unit, or as good a scope mount, nor a carrying handle (for use in prone, with the bipod, getting up, running, going prone again). There's a REASON why belt feds have a carrying handle, ya know. The AK is really unlikely to have even half of the accuracy-range of a good AR, altho the Finnish made Valmet-AK is right up there, accuracy-wise, it's many thousands of $, too.
 

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if theres LESS THAN A MILLON 'COPS'

i'll pinnon a 'BADGE' come post *hit hit the fan ,

bank on it !




thanks.
 

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Handguns have holsters that cover trigger guards. Longguns don't. Gunkid, you sound like Edwards in a Chenny/Edwards debate.
 

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The fantasy continues........................
 

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Did'nt someone make a carbine conversion kit,similar to the Wilson CCU for the Glocks/Would have been in the past 2-3 years as far as I can recall.I remember thinking it might just be the ticket,especially for bottleneck rounds like the .357Sig, or the .400 COR BON....and the parent calibers.Fun quotient could actually equal the utility. :cool:
 
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