[Terry G]

Soldiers love to tinker with their equipment. Give a soldier something and he'll fool with it. I don't know what it's like today, but in my service in Viet Nam, I saw some pretty strange stuff. Working with the big Infantry things first, I saw M-60 machine guns cut down to just forward of their gas tubes, eliminating the flah supressor, bipod, and six inches of their barrel . I spoke to the man who had done this and he explained that "the flash and noise scared the hell out of the gooks." I know it scared the hell out of me, he was all over the place with it. The fireball must have been four feet. (It was on a range.) The M-79 grenade laucher was a single shot, great weapon. It would put a 40MM grenade very accurately on a man sized target out to about three hundred meters. The bursting range was 5 meters (kill zone) and 15 meters (wound zone.) It also kicked like hell. This was with a full stock and thick rubber recoil pad. I saw them cut down to the pistol grip, and five inches sawed off the barrel. That must have been fun to shoot. I also saw M-14's cut down to the gas port and the stocks cut to the pistol grip. One Lieutenant carried a M-2 carbine cut to the forend with a the sight re-mounted on 8" barrel. It was a folding stock. He also carried a .38 S&W Chief's Special in an ankle holster. Wouldn't that have worked well after wading through a rice paddy. Any infantyman could get hold of a M1911A1 .45 if he really wanted one. Technically .45's were issued to Officer's and NCO's. BUT, there was a wonderful instrument called a "Hand Receipt" in which you could transfer Government property from one unit to another, or from one individual to another. So, If Sergeant Jones is rotating home, he toddles down to the supply room, get's a blank hand receipt, and signs it over to SP/4 Smith. He dutifully turns in two copies to the supply room, throws his copy away, and his friend has a pistol. Many men decided to get ther own personal pistols, however, and such a hodgepodge you have never seen. Helicopter pilots with WWII German Lugers, P-38's, and S&W .357 Magnums. Browning P-35's were pretty common, and I remember a Polish Radom 9MM. Families would send pistols concealed in baked goods wrapped in tin foil to their Son's. One man was thrilled to show me a Browning .25ACP his fiance had sent him. A .25 ACP? In a combat zone? Don't ask me. Knives were another thing. The issue M-16 Bayonet was too light for routine work. (I never saw it used for anything else). So Western Bowies ($12.00 a copy in those times), Randall's and Air Force Survival knives abounded. At one point we were issued fluorescent orange swichblade knives with a parachute cord cutting hook????? Odd time.

 

[Garand]

Just before Y2K, all Combat Arms units in Canada had a JAG lawyer visit them, in case the military was required for "Aide To The Civil Power". They were very specific about NOT carrying your own personal firearms, just what you were issued with. During my tours in the Middle East, I had a couple of friends in my Rifle Company, who went to some of the seedier hotels prior to deployment and bought a disposable handgun. Customs were very thourough with us when we came back. As a young infanteer, I purchased a Gerber Mk II survival knife witch was double edge serrated in 1975 and it was still attached to my ruck when I retired in 2002.

 

[Hard Ball]

I dis my share. When I qwnt into combat I carried an N frame S&W .357 Magnum and a Randall knife

 

[Hard Ball]

As for .25 ACP automatics. I knew a US Army captain who killed three Chinese soldiers armed with submachine guns using hia Colt Model 1908 .25 ACP back up gun.

 

[RIKA]

It seems to me that if a person is going to be in a combat zone they should be able to carry a handgun/knife (either issued or personal) if they choose to regardless of rank. Wonder why the military is now taking such a hard line against our troops doing that.

RIKA

 

[Garand]

Very simply so you cannot be accused of a violation of the laws of war. By using an inhuman gun, ammunition etc. Cameras are everywhere and reporters are not always a soldier's best friend. Some actually have agenda's!

 

[RIKA]

Garand, I believe that the Geneva Convention is being ignored by the Allies in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are using soft point bullets etc. As far as the firearm being inhumane, the military could publish an approved list of authorized firearms that the troops are allowed to carry. Sure there are reporters and cameramen with agendas but they will find a way to report fault even if they have to invent it. I believe in the safety and security of our troops comes first and if a handgun/knife helps make that possible then they should have it.

My .02 plus change

RIKA

 

[Garand]

Any ammunition that is being used by soldiers in Iraq these days would have been approved by JAG! Thats a fact. As for soldiers carrying their own handguns. During my career, I have known many soldiers who went out and purchased their own handguns, most are rarely fired. Most are actually fired less than than a soldiers issue rifle is during annual qualification. In today's hi tech generation, learning basic combat skills with a handgun and ammunition that you have had to spend your hard earned money to buy, just isn't "sexy".

 

[andy]

sure, shooting them in the back of the neck, as they knelt down, either tied up or under the muzzle of other guns. So what?

 

[Aslan]

sure, shooting them in the back of the neck, as they knelt down, either tied up or under the muzzle of other guns. So what?

I'm trying to determine which post in this thread this relates to - anybody got any ideas?

Is it claiming that soldiers carry their own firearms to exceute helpless people?

A subject and a reference would have been helpful for this one.

I'm not trying to be derrogatory, just trying understand what's being said and why.

:devil:

 

[RIKA]

sure, shooting them in the back of the neck, as they knelt down, either tied up or under the muzzle of other guns. So what?

Perhaps this post is an example of andy's wishful thinking. Not trying to be derogatory either but am drawn to this conclusion.

RIKA

 

[Aslan]

I hope we are both wrong in our interpetation of his post...

:devil:

 

[Garand]

Your listening to the babbling of someone that was thrown out of the Army as an unfit soldier. Someone who has no concept of right or wrong, legal or illegal, someone who has no concept of responsibility for his actions. Soldiers these days are far more responsible for their actions than in previous decades. Look at the attack on Bagdad in Gulf II, you had a reporter in the lead assault troop! While your company commander may or may not agree with your actions, the guy who is sucking back on his meatloaf, 30 seconds later watching your actions in down home america, might not agree.

 

[Terry G]

sure, shooting them in the back of the neck, as they knelt down, either tied up or under the muzzle of other guns. So what?

What has your response to do with the topic? This is the fourth or fifth time in three day's that your responses were in la-la land. Quit snortin that sh**!

 

[andy]

In Korea, I usually kept out a 1911 over the weekend, locked in my locker. The Supply Sergeant wasn't around, and the lower EM'S who were pulling the arms room duty didn't care. I took one rd out of all 18 of the other mags in the battery we were stationed at (7 1911's, 3 mags each, each with 6 rds) and put one empty case at the bottom of each one. I used those 18 rds to take guys shooting and pheasant hunting on the weekends. I'd brought a couple of spare mags from home, so they lay loaded in my locker at all times.

I'd also brought 1000 primers and a Lee Handloader, and got 1000 more primers mailed to me, shot em all up with wax ammo, nearly all of it while "guarding" the Nuke Nike Hercules missles, at night.

I swapped parts into my 1911 until I had the best trigger pull I could get, too. Nobody else either gave a crap or could tell the diff, so why not make such available to the guy who could and did?

 

[Terry G]

Arms rooms are routinely inventoried at least twice every eight hours and some times hourly by the CQ (Charge of Quarters) in a non-combat post. The inventory is signed by an NCO. Either John's unit was the most lax I've ever heard of, or this is another "story". That a .45 could remain missing for an entire weekend in a peactime post is unheard of. It would be the end of someone's (the Company Commander or Detachment Commander) career. The paper trail on weapons in a combat zone was an impossible task, but on a non-combat base it was the top priority. Weapons and ammunition accountability were very, very strict. Sooner or later someone would have found empty shells in those magazines, then it would have hit the fan. At least a full CID investigation.

 

[gripper]

Hey Andy!!!are you getting in touch with your execution-fetish wet dreams again???...WTF,did the dogs finally not hold still for you ??Got some bite marks where you'd be embarassed to admit??

 

[andy]

what's it to you, punk? Just because you wouldn't DARE TRY the things I did without even thinking about them?

 

[brass hammer]

why even try, aslan? i've come to the conculsion that it's a mind over matter
'deal'

davis has NO mind [other than a few overly excited moter sonoptic nurons,snapping wildly]

therefor he has NO MIND, so HE DOSEN'T MATTER!




:wavey:

 

[gripper]

Ok...what I've learned in my life is that the makority of people who toss around words like"punk'usually fall into that category themselves.They broke ,or were broken and spend the rest of their time on earth projecting that onto others.Hence,the "punk"making use of that word that fits him like a crown.I mean,lets face it;someone who considers torturing/killing dogs to be a good thing(or at least a way to show he's not a weakling),who than meanders into the notion of US troops doing the Einsatzgruppen thing in an unrelated thread.Hey ,the weak&the helpless fantasize mightily on the idea of making others helpless,or mistreating those they can with no comebacks.So yes ,I would say the term he likes as a reflex fits him .