[RIKA]

Since this is the SHTF forum, I would like to invite you to discuss your personal experiences and training in ambush and counter-ambush techniques. The books offer some ideas but so much of it is obvious fantasy and Rambo stuff that its not very helpful. Viewpoints from live people that you trust is much better.

RIKA

 

[84 C4]

Does it count as an "ambush" if I catch a squirrel in a trap and shoot it repeatedly at point-blank range? :bounce:

 

[RIKA]

Absolutely if the squirrel can shoot back.

RIKA

 

[andy]

it'd be as much "experience" as garnad and 90%+ of those here who CLAIM such info. What Harry told me about it is what happens in the first 1-2 seconds determines the outcome, nearly always. The only realistic thing to do about ambushes, is AVOID the sort of terrain where they are likely to occur. shtf, you dont HAVE to do much of anything, and certainly not by any given time. That lets you avoid many risks that military people can't just delay, go around, etc. THEIR "answers" are not your answers. They can't be, and they don't have to be, either.

 

[Garand]

You gotta love bar room "War Stories". Lets here some more!

 

[Garand]

Erika, check for a pm

 

[Stillwater]

it'd be as much "experience" as garnad and 90%+ of those here who CLAIM such info. What Harry told me about it is what happens in the first 1-2 seconds determines the outcome, nearly always. The only realistic thing to do about ambushes, is AVOID the sort of terrain where they are likely to occur. shtf, you dont HAVE to do much of anything, and certainly not by any given time. That lets you avoid many risks that military people can't just delay, go around, etc. THEIR "answers" are not your answers. They can't be, and they don't have to be, either.

MELVIN, is Harry one of the voices in your head? What is his last name?

 

[RIKA]

Hey! I thought I was on ignore and Melvin answered my post. His mental retention is such a fleeting thing. Or maybe 223 fan didn't tell andy.

RIKA

 

[GBullet]

To my way of thinking, the best way to deal with an ambush is to aggresively attack into the ambushers.

 

[Half elf]

I was taught as a point man, correctly or not that if I triggered a ambush I would probably be at the short leg(hammer), and to toss a frag grenade forward, and then pop smoke and move to close with the long side(anvil), to negate any belt fed weapons, mortars, or claymores. Remaining still is a invitation to disaster as they already have You sighted, ranged, and bracketed, so clear the trail, get close, and either overrun or eliminate the OPFOR, and then preceed back trail DIDI MOA to a known point atlwast 1Km away and try to regroup.

 

[DJetAce]

Different terrain, different ambush techniques. It also depends on the weapons at hand, number of frendlies, number of enemys (with gunkid, that will be no problem), time constraints, etc...

If it's in HEAVY COVER and at NIGHT, like gunkid likes, that is the easiest as you can simply rig trip wires to improvised weapons and just go home. Good thing about mantraps is they do all the work and never sleep.

 

[Terry G]

Ambush Tactics

First of all my Infantry training was 30 odd years ago, I'm sure tactics have changed. Also, military tactics don't fit the scenario' s that would normally face civilian's in survival situations. So forgive me. We were basically trained in Advanced Infantry Training on three basic types of ambushes. Hasty, small unit (6 to 12 men), and "L" shaped ambushes that required about a platoon of 25 to thirty men. A hasty ambush was just that. Your point man saw enemy troops, signalled the squad leader or team leader, and you spread out in a line to receive them after posting flank and rear security. This type ambush was pretty common and not that hard to control. You would also use this type if you were running and needed a little "elbow room" until your support kicked in. (A Retrograde Ambush, the Army NEVER retreats) The "L" type, was a planned ambush utilising your troops as the names implies, in an "L" shape on a trail or known movement point. A machine gun was placed on the short leg of the "L" to fire along the front of the ambush. Claymore mines were placed on both ends of the long leg of the "L" and also in the middle. You placed security also, of course. The Patrol Leader would give the order to open up when notified by radio (break squelch only, no voice) by blowing a claymore or ordering the machinegunner to fire. These type ambushes take a lot of coordination and are difficult to control. If YOU got ambushed, you were trained to open up with everything you had to establish "fire superiority", once you did , you assaulted the ambush. If you couldn't esatblish fire superiority. you were to "break contact" on your leader's order. "Break Contact" is Army for "Run Like Hell" away from the ambush, taking your wounded along, to a designated "rallying" point. Once there, you went into a perimeter defense. None of these ever work like they read, flexibilty was stressed to the maximum.

 

[.45 COLT]

Like Terry G's, my training and experience was a long time ago. AIT and Ranger School, Jump School in between, just so I could get into Ranger School. 3 tours in SE Asia. 3 things I learned. A feller doesn't want to be on the wrong side of a Claymore. An M60 and two M14's can set up a hell of a killing field (we kept the 14's, the early 16's didn't work). In an ambush gone bad, I am a world-class sprinter.

DC

 

[Garand]

During various exercises while in the military, I ran the regiments "OPFOR". What a hoot, even on the bald @ss prairie successful ambushes can be initiated as long as you make proper use of deception and all the dead ground thats available to you.

 

[RIKA]

During various exercises while in the military, I ran the regiments "OPFOR". What a hoot, even on the bald @ss prairie successful ambushes can be initiated as long as you make proper use of deception and all the dead ground thats available to you.

What kind of deception did you use, Garand?

RIKA

 

[Garand]

During a couple of exercises out on the prairies I allowed the vehicles that transported my troop to be barely camoflagued so as the "A" Squadron commander could spot "our" general location. He deployed his squadron for a frontal assault, as the area I had chosen has very steep ******* on either flank. I had my OPFOR troop positioned 1,500 meters in front of my trucks in dead ground covering the approach with GPMG's, 66mm's, and 84mm anti tank launchers. We sprung the ambush at 50 meters and the people in the kill zone didn't spot us till they were 25 meters from my first slit trenches.

On another exercise, we had a clear view for 10 miles, I took my guys to the base of a large bald hill , we were in site of the Squadron 5,000-6,000 meters away. I had my 30 guys run up the hill (they were NOT happy campers). We allowed ourselves to be seen heading up the hill. When we hit the top, I chose 4 guys to stay there and the rest of us ducked out of line of sight of the squardron. We then ran down the hill and I split the troop evenly 300 meters to the left and right of the hill. The squadron deployed as expected. When they tried to flank the hill we opened up at 50 meters, without having been seen. A couple hours later at the debrief one of the young Lt's complained to the Lt Col that I didn't play fair. I grinned as the Lt col reminded the youngster that in combat neither do the people that are trying to kill you.

Ok, there are 2 "war stories", you can take off your helmets now and put away the shovel. These stories are better told in a bar after 2 beer!

 

[RIKA]

Fantastic. I love it! Thank you.

RIKA

 

[Unalist]

Ambush ideas.

Terry G, excellent textbook answer. It's morning here and I'll have to put on my ACU zoot suit and get to work in a little while. To my knowledge the "textbook" hasn't changed on ambushes.

We use small kill teams more now. Bad Hajhi usually didn't form up and go on patrol in IZ. Afganistan is on next years vacation itinerary and will probably teach me a thing or two. Since you're targeting typically one or two "midnight gardeners" you sneak in or leave behind about 4 guys. Two usually pull security and one either has a MG or a unit level sniping rifle (M14 is what we had). Forth guy spotting or assistant gunner.

Garand, you actually trained a good deal for it and I'll say your advice is probably better if someone actually had to do it. I've been on a few but the ones I personally was on were more interdiction. We basically made so much noise the locals knew we were there and showed our "prescene". That was toward the end before we "handed" it over.

We had one village that was freindly but it was the worst natural ambush I have ever seen. Cliff side roads, restricting bridges leading to one way in one way out, over shadowing buildings, and forest for concealment with cropland for feilds of fire.

Keep in mind while planning an ambush, knowing or guessing your target , using his conplacency, training or instincts or using your time and shaping elements like obsticals to make your ememy choose the location you've selected for him.

I've heard and am willing to do multistage ambushes. The initial stage you use explosive devices machineguns ect like a typical ambush. The survivors go on instinct or training and jump into a convient ditch. Then you blow the secondaries like detcord in the ditch. Or you let the enemy take up position and start engaging you. Why??? Because meanwhile thier QRF forces come out to save them into another ambush of yours.

I have always thought if you had the time you could lay mines on either side of a trail and across it at the ambush point. Claymores or other command charges in the road at the opening of the "U" to seal off the kill zone.

 

[cutter]

Unalist, you have a devious mind. I like you.

Do they make a mine that has to be triggered twice to set it off? Something where say the first pressure arms the thing and then the second detonates it? It occurs to me that something like this would have a couple of interesting and useful applications. If I remember correctly, US military convoys are currently set up to have a gun truck at either end of the column in standard configuration. I could easily be wrong. If so, let me know. If this arrangement is true, stopping the lead truck would bottle up the convoy if the terrain was suitable for an ambush on one or both flanks. With the right kind of arm then trip mine, no active ambush would be needed to cause real losses. Lead truck arms the mine, then the fuel truck in second place detonates the mine and blows itself and everything for 20 meters to kingdom come. Just a thought.

The other use that readily comes to mind is that it would allow very small units (as few as 1 or 2 troops properly armed) to set up effective ambushes against much larger units in a very short period of time. An unobtrusive mine (one that doesn't give any indication that it has been triggered) on a timer would serve very well in that regard too. Lead man trips the thing but it actually goes off in the middle of the squad.

 

[Unalist]

double activated mines sound familiar

Double activated mines sound familiar but I can't place them. Currently (or used to be?) in IZ, Improvied Rocket Launchers are set up off the road out of jamming range. They use a cell phone ect to trigger it remotely on the target vehcile.

I was having a theoretical discussion once of a "mine feild" that used just distributed (mortar/artilery or airdropped) sensors to "report back" to a fire control center to bring indirect fire. It could be automated to ignore small groups or the wrong type of target (let the light scouts go by so you can hit the armor in the main body). For instance if you've unwittingly been walking or driving into a sensor feild for half and hour then it opens up on you because you're in the middle your doomed. You can't stay put or run or drive out where it can't find you. Only thing more nightmarish are Self Guided Mines.