[bookwriter]

Hi, just wondering what would happen if you swung a, lets see, 1961 russian assault rifle at a wall as hard as you would, and it hit the wall muzzle first as a 35 deegree angle. I am not sure what type of rifle it would be, as I can't find any websites that list old Soviet rifles.

 

[dthomas]

The AK-47 was the common Russian assault rifle at that time. Heck, it still is. Anyways, the stock would most likely break before the barrel would bend. Not saying it wouldn't happen but it would be unlikely. Hitting the barrel at the muzzle is going to cause it to act like a big lever. It would exert force against the receiver and stock before hurting the barrel any. I can not see any one exterting the kind of force it would take at the muzzle to bend the barrel any.

 

[Rich Z]

Might knock the hell out of the front site, but the AKs were made to be used by clods, so maybe not. The gun was designed to be made cheaply and used reliably by untrained troops. So it was made like a brick. When you put a bayonet on the end of the barrel, you really don't want to think the barrel would bend if someone put the blade into a tree by mistake while running through the woods.

No, I think Dennis is right, the stock would likely break before anything else. That and maybe a big chip out of the wall as well.

IMHO.

BTW, in another thread you posted on this site, I put a link to a Russian site all about the Kalashnikov rifles. Did you see it, Bookwriter?

You ARE going to mention us in your book and how helpful we are all, now aren't you??

 

[.45 COLT]

Just out of curiosity, why would someone do that?

DC

 

[bookwriter]

Ummm, sorry I have to ask this, but is the stock the thing that goes against your shoulder? I'm new to guns, you see . . .

 

[dthomas]

Not just what goes against your shoulder. The whole piece of wood that the receiver and barrel are fitted in is the stock.

 

[bookwriter]

Ahhh, so the bit that starts about half-way down the barrel and what the trigger in housed in and all that?

 

[bookwriter]

Would an AK-47 be completely useless with the stock shattered?
Would it shatter or snap, and, if anyone out there is an AK nut, what type of wood is the stock made out of in an early 60s AK-47 used by the Russian military?

 

[dthomas]

Ahhh, so the bit that starts about half-way down the barrel and what the trigger in housed in and all that?

Yup

 

[Rich Z]

Actually, the AK-47 is pretty robust. It probably would take one hell of a whack to break the stock on it as well. As far as disabling the gun, it depends where it broke at. I have never owned an AK, but I don't believe there is anything important in the stock like you would have in an M16, so it probably would still fire.

I believe the AK-47 would make a very effective club when it ran out of ammo, so that may have been part of the design as well.

 

[dthomas]

I think with a shattered stock it would be useless. You would still have the bolt and recoil/buffer spring/assembly coming back against the stock. With the stock gone, there is nothing for it to brace against and with a shattered stock it would most likely fail.

 

[Guest]

i once watched a tanzanian tribal use an older AKM by swinging the buttstock into a door. he gripped the barrel like it was a baseball bat. he did get through the door, but the rifle was really worn out in several hard swings.....warped barrel, busted the plastic furniture badly, and knocked the sights clean off. to his dismay the guy in the room had a functioning HKG3K.
jamullins

 

[bookwriter]

I think with a shattered stock it would be useless. You would still have the bolt and recoil/buffer spring/assembly coming back against the stock. With the stock gone, there is nothing for it to brace against and with a shattered stock it would most likely fail.

How would I include this information so that people that have no idea (which include me) understand what a recoil/buffer and spring/assembly is?

 

[dthomas]

A recoil buffer is basically a rod inside of a spring. When the rifle is fired, the bolt rides back against this rod, the springs absorbs some of the recoil and returns the bolt forward.

A perfect example of this is is what you see in the butt stock of a M16/AR15. The rod and spring inside there are called the buffer assembly.

In the AK47 the rod spring are contained in the receiver.

 

[Rich Z]

One important point is that the recoil buffer assembly is IN the stock of the AR-15/M-16. I believe all the Kalashnikov actions have the recoil assembly within the receiver, as Dennis pointed out. If the stock gets broken off of the AK-47 and there is nothing behind the recoil rod/spring. I guess you could fire that gun one more time. But I certainly would not want to be the one firing it!

If you are holding the gun up to use the sights when you fire it, I suspect there is a very good chance you will have the recoil rod sticking right through your cheekbone and possible on through your head. Might be an interesting experiment, but I wouldn't want to try it.

I had a discussion years ago about this problem in reference to the M-16. Grunts used to be able to use the M-14 as an effective club if they happened to run out of ammo. The M-14 was pretty SOLID. The guy said he was told by his drill sergeant that if someone made the mistake us using the M-16 as a club, it would not be possible to fire it after you broke off the stock. I disagreed. I felt that you would be able to fire that gun one more time, but when that bolt carrier flies back into your face, it would certainly ruin your day. I don't know if that gas tube extension on top of the bolt carrier would be enough to stop it's rearwards movement, because I think it would break the charging handle right out of the upper receiver. Again, nothing I want to experiment with to find out for sure......

 

[dthomas]

Seeing as the charging handle is aluminum, I wouldn't want to try either...lol

 

[tasco 74]

 

[bookwriter]

So you could shoot an Ak-47 one more time after the shock shattered, but if you were aiming through the sights the recoil would probably kill you, right? Say if you had the gun at your side, or agaisn't you shoulder, but not looking through the sights? Could the loose bolt get you then? Any idea what it would sound like?

 

[Rich Z]

It would probably sound like a substantial chunk of metal hitting muscle and bone, plus a healthy scream from the person firing the weapon. :eek2:

The safest thing to do would be to fire it at your side making sure no part of your body is directly in back of the gun. But as I mentioned, I don't have an AK-47, so I don't know exactly how the stock is afixed to the receiver. Hmm, wait a minute. If I can get into the vault, I can check out one of my Galils or my Valmet. They should be similar. I haven't been in the vault for a while, so the floor in front of it has become a "temporary" holding area for junk......

 

[Guest]

there wouldnt be enough force generated by the recoiling bolt to actually do physical damage. the rouynd only generates about 15 ft lbs of free recoil and the gun weighs enough to soak most of that. the recoil buffer is there for the sake of the operating sysrem, namely the blot, not the shooter. you could fire the weapon at least once more, but that may allow any number of mechanical problems render the rifle unusable. as for accuracy, well it is an AK. besides the russian view of assualt rifles is as up powered submachine guns instead of the western view of scaled down rifles. submachine gun mentality is all about being violently effective at very personal ranges, thus it tends to crude, rude, but very effective. the AK actually has an overhung bolt like an SMG so a shattered stock probably won't automatically make it stop firing. a lot to consider if yo want the reallity of the situation you seem to be getting at.
jamullins