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Incredibly inaccurate? Leverevolution ammunition? Damn, I guess all the deer I've killed, plus 3 bear and a carabou, might argue that point with you.

DC
 

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I'd have to agree with .45 Colt on the levergun 'issues'. Mine are all in magnum pistol calibers (.357, .44, and .454), and I don't use any of them for hunting much beyond 100-150 yards simply due to that, but that's a ballistics thing, not a levergun-inaccuracy thing. I think a lot of the problem is that leverguns in pistol calibers are easy to make and are forgiving tolerance-wise due to the relatively low pressures compared to real rifle calibers; and that makes it easy for some makers to slap them out quickly, easily, and sloppily. But that's also not a levergun issue, it's a manufacturer and marketing issue.

On leverevolution, never bought leverevolution ammunition; I rarely buy any factory centerfire ammunition anymore, but I've perused it online out of curiosity. The .44 leverevolution that I looked at at midway was actually the least expensive factory .44's I found there iirc.
 

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You are correct that it is a ballistics issue. However, since lever guns come chambered for those inferior rounds it really becomes a lever gun issue.

Surely none of you are arguing that a 30-30 lever gun can offer comparable accuracy to a .308 bolt action (all things being equal).

That was almost undeniably a universally understood concept- that lever guns, while mechanically sound perhaps, were not competitive with bolt action rifles in accuracy.

Leverevolution ammo has changed that somewhat. They created ammo that has a much better coefficient and ballistics and performs much better.

So, in summary, lever guns have been traditionally chambered only in calibers that performed poorly. Leverevolution ammunition is quite expensive and therefor my recommendation, as it was to begin with, is that the value or price point of a bolt action rifle is greater unless the "lever action" itself is a benefit to your strategy, i.e a "brush gun".
 

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As long as we're talking about the calibers that are 'typically' associated with leverguns, I actually don't disagree. I'm a fan of .308 bolt-actions and have two of them - a light scout version and a heavy bipoded version, and no question that a .30-30 lever action isn't the equal of a .308 bolt action. But given similar calibers, that disparity vanishes - a .308 lever action is the equal of a .308 bolt-action, or at least can be. There are a lot of BLR, 99E and Finnwolf owners that can attest to the truth of that.

My point is just that the issue we're discussing really lies with the choice of caliber, not the choice of action-type.

While I only own leverguns in the less-powerful calibers, they do come in the calibers more commonly associated with bolt guns. I've handled leverguns in .308 and .300 Win Mag both; just never bought one. (As a side note, it's hard for me to think of my .454 levergun as 'low-powered'; it puts out more energy than either of my .308's, and even slightly more than a .30-06 does for that matter; it just lacks the ballistic coefficient and therefore the range of the smaller-diameter 30-calibers.)
 

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I have no argument with the statements that bolt actions are usually more accurate than lever guns, although the 6.5 Carcano would prove that idea is not univerally true. The statement I take issue with is:

But, stay far far away from lever action (imo) because they are incredibly inaccurate unless you wish to spend a fortune on leverevolution ammo.
Now, none of the factory .44-40 ammunition that I've seen isn't suitable for deer, but that's due to the bullet design, not the rifle or cartridge. My handloads have take a number of one-shot kills. A friend has a Browning levergun in .308. I wouldn't call that terribly underpowered.

I have a number of rifles, many are bolt actions, but my out-the-door gun is almost always a '92 or '94.

DC
 

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TheMadRide,

Sure, it's not physically possible for a lever action to match a theoretically optimized bolt action on a number of benchmarks, especially accuracy. At that point, we get to defining "what is a deer gun?"

I know of many people who enjoy lever action firearms; I'm not one of them. However, most people who I know who enjoy lever action firearms hunt, and have had seemingly no trouble taking game with their preferred implement.

I agree, the "best" deer gun isn't a lever action. If you want the absolute most efficient and capable deer culler you're probably looking at some type of carbine-DMRish deal from a solely white-paper performance standpoint. I'd venture there are substantially more people who hunt successfully with lever actions than there are people who hunt at all with this hypothetical beast.

Defining "best" with a straight face is a hard thing in regards to this subject because almost any hot-rock thrower can do the job, though varying degrees of skill are required for success.

In response to the original question: whatever you feel comfortable with employing to destroy deer CNS tissue or eliminate the supply of oxygenated blood, as humanely as possible, at the ranges where you are likely to encounter deer in your hunting environment, assuming said weapon is capable of withstanding your hunting environment.
 

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...it's not physically possible for a lever action to match a theoretically optimized bolt action on a number of benchmarks"...
Likely true. My point is simply that 1MOA leverguns can be had, in the same calibers as bolt actions. If the argument was that "most leverguns aren't as accurate as most bolt actions", I'd agree with no reservations. It's the blanket condemnation of leverguns as "incredibly inaccurate", and being therefore inadequately accurate for the topic at hand - ie deer hunting - that I take issue with; because it's demonstrably not true.

Not to be argumentative or beat a dead horse unnecessarily, but there's a great gulf between what granddad's 80-year old '94 does, and what a levergun CAN be made to do. One moa is much more than adequate for deer hunting, and frankly 2-moa is more than adequate as well in 99% of any circumstances we'll ever see; and I can point to three leverguns off the top of my head that regularly do that, even with off-the-shelf factory ammunition.

No offense meant to anyone - just hoping to dispel a myth just as I'd try to dispel the popular "a .45acp to the hand will rip their arm off" comments that occasionally pop up on gun forums.

Well, crap - just recalled I've actually used .45acp for deer hunting, (using corbon ammunition); so it looks like we've gone full circle... I guess the question now is simply, is a .45acp as accurate as a levergun...? :duck:



Seriously - as someone who's hunted since 1975 or so and been a competitive shooter since the PPC days in the later 70's, I genuinely believe that in actual field use, most any good-quality gun in a medium-or-larger caliber, with appropriate-to-your-situation optics, is more than accurate and effective enough to be a great deer rifle for north american use. JMO and probably worth just about what anyone paid for it... ;)
 

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It's the blanket condemnation of leverguns as "incredibly inaccurate", and being therefore inadequately accurate for the topic at hand - ie deer hunting - that I take issue with; because it's demonstrably not true.
... ... ... ... ...
One moa is much more than adequate for deer hunting, and frankly 2-moa is more than adequate as well in 99% of any circumstances we'll ever see; and I can point to three leverguns off the top of my head that regularly do that, even with off-the-shelf factory ammunition.
I agree wholeheartedly.
 

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just hoping to dispel a myth just as I'd try to dispel the popular "a .45acp to the hand will rip their arm off"
Are you saying that a .45acp won't do that??!!! Are you sure? Have you seen someone shot in the hand with a .45acp? Why would someone shoot the hand instead of CM is beyond me, if they are accurate enough to shoot the hand, why not go for the easier targeting area.. LOL

I used to be able to shoot a good 2" group at 100 yards with open sights.. Unfortunately the eyeballs don't want to help with that anymore.. may have something to do with practice too.. havent been doing that either..

With whatever caliber one chooses, practice is the key. If you can get the bullets to go where they need to go, they will do their job. There is no single best rifle for all areas, because there are differences in terrain, and landscaping. In the brushy northwest, I would go with a shorter rifle.. in the open areas of the eastern side of the northwest, I would go with something that has accuracy to 400 yards.. (not saying that I would shoot that far..) Either way, trigger time is a big part of how accurate you can shoot.. as most rifles can shoot better than their owners.. off hand.. which is what quite a few of us do when we are hunting.. mainly off hand shots..
 

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Are you saying that a .45acp won't do that??!!! Are you sure? Have you seen someone shot in the hand with a .45acp?...
Tested it on myself. Had to pick the bullet out of my palm with some tweezers, but no big deal. :cool:
 

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Bummer. I wanted to argue some more... :rofl: :D
lolz...

I'm well aware one does not need anything close to one of my builds to go deer hunting. It always kind of irritates me when someone thinks that some sort of uber-divine-smiter is necessary for the vast majority of what deer hunting entails in most places.

I know TheMadRide is by no means a newb, but it was an awkward statement from what I've seen/heard. I'm sure he's got his reasons, although I'd bet they're exceptional.
 

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Too often novice hunters end up in the woods with a rifle that is just more of a burden than anything.
Find a gun shop or range that will allow you to test guns or find somebody who will let you shoot their guns if you don't have experience shooting.
Stay clear of Magnums - they are wholly unnecessary.
I recommend the following calibers: .25-06, 7mm-08, .243 Winchester, or 30-30 Winchester. They're easy to find ammo for and are light on your shoulder.

It's really up to you to decide what type of rifle will serve best. Basically, any gun sold for hunting will work just fine. The Stevens, Mossberg, or an H&R Handi-Rifle work good at a small cost.
 

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Too often novice hunters end up in the woods with a rifle that is just more of a burden than anything....

...Stay clear of Magnums - they are wholly unnecessary.

...It's really up to you to decide what type of rifle will serve best.

...Basically, any gun sold for hunting will work just fine. The Stevens, Mossberg, or an H&R Handi-Rifle work good at a small cost.
There you go, being reasonable and rational.... That's not allowed on the internet, young man. You're supposed to name the one "ultimate" rifle that's best for everyone and everything. You're doing it wrong. :mad:

(Fwiw, I agree with you completely.)



Sorry all - kind of like a 9 vs. 45 debate; sacred cows only make me want to go cow-tipping... :poke:
 

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If you think the 9MM versus .45 ACP was bad, go back to the '50's where Cop's carried Colt .38's and the Colt 1911 advocates declared the .38 Special to be trash. Talk about sparks flying, I'm suprised the Gun magazines didn't catch fire! Same today with the ever popular .30/30 versus the SKS in my area. Harvesting a nice Whitetail is best accomplished with accuracy, no matter what caliber you choose.
 

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There you go, being reasonable and rational.... That's not allowed on the internet, young man. You're supposed to name the one "ultimate" rifle that's best for everyone and everything. You're doing it wrong. :mad:

(Fwiw, I agree with you completely.)



Sorry all - kind of like a 9 vs. 45 debate; sacred cows only make me want to go cow-tipping... :poke:
haha well since this is the internet I would suggest either one of these

 

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I always thought the concept was to kill it and then cook it, not do both at the same time... Kind of hard to get a steak when it ends up all hamburger...
 

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There is not an animal in North America that won't go down with the proper bullet placement of a .30-06 bolt gun. A Remington M700 suits my taste. Magnum calibers for a lot of people are just an excuse to make up for piss poor marksmanship.
 
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