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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The airwt 357's are completely uncontrolable, just as is the .44 mag. in the Mountain Gun format (much less the scandium versions, ferchrissakes) The locked breech 380 has the POTENTIAL to be a better manstopper than .45 ball is, (not that THAT means a lot, since .45 ball aint MUCH better'n a .22lr, really). However, you have to handload your ammo to get that 300+ ft lbs out of a locker 380 and such loads beat the crap out of the Mustang and Colt Govt 380s FRAGILE little ejector. That thing is a joke, man. Also, the alloy framed mustang is pretty close to uncontrolable with such loads, because it only weights 13 ozs. The Rorbaugh 9mm, if it really does only weigh 14 ozs, is going to have the samecontrol problems, and the Kahr PM9 aint a lot better.

When I decided to go with a pocket pistol, for its speed into action advantage (in typical weather and clothing, if you have your head out of your ass, I first chose the 20 oz Star Pony 380,a locked breech model. I mourned the loss of real power and range. However, after I learned more about the realities of at what ranges you have to fire, and how seldom you have to HIT anyone(as long as you get your gun out and NOTICED by the attacker in time) I was less upset at having "only" 300-400 ft lbs available with each shot.

It's alot of trouble and expense (about $3000) to have a properly set up, SA pocket 9, (the "chopped" Star BM, chambered in 356 TSW) to get the 600 ft lbs of controlable power, the 2200 fps temporary cavity advantage, and the 3 separate wound tracks and AP capability of the 356 Star. Frankly, my friend would never pay that much, but my friend can do the smithing work himself, so he ends up having only about $400(and 30 hours' work) in the gun and 3 chopped mags, luminous sights, ambi-safety, mag catch on the butt, Firestar "sinus" at the rear of the triggerguard, ducktail frame tang, stippling, trigger job, etc.

He'd greatly prefer to pay $1000 for such a gun, tho, IF he could trust a smith to do it right for that sort of money. Aint happening, tho, cause it would mean the smith would be working for $20 an hour. That's peanuts these days. Today, a decent smith makes $100+ an hour. He may claim it's "only" $50 an hour, but he's lying about how long the work takes him to finish. :) There's plenty of guys who can do no more than drive a truck down the highway who make $20 an hour. Those who wouldn't spend $1000 on a prime ccw pistol aint going to be great shottists, cause they are just too cheap to pay for training, or even enough practice ammo.
 

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"not that THAT means a lot, since .45 ball aint MUCH better'n a .22lr, really"

THe US armed forces have used .45ACP ball since 1911. with excellent resuls and is increasing the issue of .45ACP pistols in the Army and the Matine Corpa particularly in special operations units. Against that record your unsubstantiated opinion means absolutely nothing.
 

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It just seems that ***** has to denigrate any weapon to which he does not have access, while implimenting implausible explanations to promote whatever he is left with after his illegal attempts to secure whatever firearms he can find, "back channel". This ploy is entirely in-line with his every argument to undermine anyone's experience that is not his own, thereby not worthy of effort or exploration. Every thread **** posts to imbue us with his wisdom only serves to further illustrate his nefarious character. To suggest the 45 acp is on par with a 22 lr is the height of his crazy talk, in my opinion.
SatCong
 

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The magic formula for manstopping success with a round is 12-16" penetration of gelatin, and consistant expansion to .50+ caliber. .45 hardball is almost there in the caliber dept. even without expansion.

Find a .22 round that does the same.
 

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The post is irrelevent, as gunkid/erika is not allowed to legally own firearms. Nobody else in their right mind would try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!
 

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Garand said:
The post is irrelevent, as gunkid/erika is not allowed to legally own firearms. Nobody else in their right mind would try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

after reading my self deleted post[IT COULD BE MIS -READ]


andy/erika is pretty funny to read sometimes!



:wavey:
 
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I agree absolutely. I'm dumping my useless G21 for a Star BM 9MM reclibred to .356. Uh, where do you find ammunition?
 

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Terry G said:
I agree absolutely. I'm dumping my useless G21 for a Star BM 9MM reclibred to .356. Uh, where do you find ammunition?
Just draw a picture of the ammo on a piece of paper with a crayon and it will magically appear about an hour after you take your meds.

:D

RIKA
 

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I don't even think that the Colt Mustang was available when gunkid/erika went to jail. So we are not talking about experience, just some magazine article. Irrelevent.
 

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andy said:
...When I decided to go with a pocket pistol, for its speed into action advantage (in typical weather and clothing, if you have your head out of your ass, I first chose the 20 oz Star Pony 380,a locked breech model. I mourned the loss of real power and range. However, after I learned more about the realities of at what ranges you have to fire, and how seldom you have to HIT anyone(as long as you get your gun out and NOTICED by the attacker in time) I was less upset at having "only" 300-400 ft lbs available with each shot...
If the "answer" is a locked-breech .380 for pocket carry, how about a locked-breech .380 that has no manual safety to be manipulated (and no need for one), and has no external hammer to snag in a pocket draw...?

The Keltec P380. Yes it's lighter and its frame would be more susceptible to stresses from hotter loads, but as you say, you don't need to practice much with a pocket defensive gun, so it would take a lot of time to accumulate much appreciable wear.

I don't load the .380, but 300-400 ft/lbs seems overly optimistic. 190-200 is what "normal" factory loads generally hit, and even Corbons are only 220 or so.

300-400 would be an increase of 50% to 100% above factory-normal power, much like loading a 9x19 to 600+ ft/lbs. Too unnerving for me.

{ramble= on }What's surprising when you first discover it is that when it comes to factory loads, most .380's are pushing right at the same as non-plus-p snub .38 spl; right at 180-210 ft/lbs. It's easy to just assume the .38 is "more", but if you just step back & look at the numbers themselves, the .38's only terminal advantage is penetration. {ramble= off }
 

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... Gee, my experience as to a "magic formula" has told me this:

1) Hit them....regardless of wheter or not you are carring the GK ordained wondergun on the cheap...

2)Hit them ,preferably first&center of whatever your biggest visible(and not obviously armored)target area.

3)Repeat as needed,or untilthings REALLY get interesting.

Incidently,This tends to work for those unarmed or improvised contacts that you just can't evade,avoid or outright run like the frightened feral dog that I am.....although sometimes fleeing to a better defensive area(READ:suck'em in to a killing ground)may or not be an obect.

Personally, I like the affordable handguns;I just never thought it rational to put 4 figures of cash or labor intensive hours into a piece thats serviceable within the design envelope in the hope that you'll SAFELY and reliably turn a poodle shooter into a dinasaur killer....either stay witin the known and effective limits,or ry for an affordable gun thats NOT and airweight. Me;I like service size or bigger,but I don't find steel or polyme frameed compacts to be too much to carry(at least when I was legal). Its just a quirk of mine that if I want the option of launching bullets from BIG charges of SLOW powder(my preference at least as a choice),than alloy frames and QUESTIONABLE laction/lockwork is simply not something I'd be happy with. You want a cheap pocket rocket?GK hates 'em ,but I concur with Mrostov; Makarovs are FUN;want some go fast?Tokarev/CZ52s are worth it;not a pocket gun,but they CAN be carried.
 

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Ahhh, the Tokarev. Thats my baby. All it needs is hollow point or soft point bullets and it would be the real McCoy pocket rocket. Who cares if it has a safety or not, I'll carry it on the half cock notch. Its flat as a book and reminds me of the Colt 1903 or 1908. Course the MAK has the good ammo so it works great.

RIKA
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
that's 6" more flesh than you have, front to back,

and 4" more than most have, side to side. .45 ball SUCKS, and I can prove it. All you have to do is bet $5000 on the results of 5 dogs each being shot in the ribs, hotrodded, locked breech 380 for 5, .45 ball for five, the winner being the caliber whose dogs ran the LEAST distance over all. :) The 380, if loaded with Silvertips, at 1250 fps, will win hands down. You've been listening reading too much, testing too littel.
 

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Man...WTF....Andy,you got a serious bug up you @ss on the subject of killing dogs.What,did you have a bad experience with one as a kid, or in general do you just LIKE to kill dogs?Me, I'll kill whatever is trying me,but hey,I happen to like dogs....and even some people.You gotta go find a testing medium ithe than your puppy shoot circle jerk,cause this $hit got old...
 

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First only your magic bullets are effective -- now its Silvertips that are effective. Get yore act together andy, you have more loose ends than at a tight skirt contest.

RIKA :D
 

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Now we're comparing Silvertips to hardball...

And at 1250 fps, those suckers should open up to .50"+ and penetrate at least 12 inches. Whaddya know, those are within the parameters I mentioned.

The 12"-16" mandate is to insure that a round can pass through an intervening arm or what have you and still make for an effective hit.
 

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As the fantasy continues...........................
 

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Andy!!! Put DOWN the Chihuahua,and step away from the odd devices you've assembled......now we know why he was debarked,because apparently,like sheep;they've been known to lie.Or at least protest a bit loudly.... :nyah: :noevil: :bird:
 

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that's 6" more flesh than you have, front to back,

and 4" more than most have, side to side. .45 ball SUCKS, and I can prove it. All you have to do is bet $5000 on the results of 5 dogs each being shot in the ribs, hotrodded, locked breech 380 for 5, .45 ball for five, the winner being the caliber whose dogs ran the LEAST distance over all. :) The 380, if loaded with Silvertips, at 1250 fps, will win hands down. You've been listening reading too much, testing too littel.
You really don't know anything about shot placement, do you? I've had to shoot a few dogs - had to, not going around looking for dogs to shoot, over the years. None of them have run off or continued the attack. I shot three with a .45. anchored them on the spot. I've shot one with a 9mm, also anchored to the spot. I think you're a shitty shot and try to make up for it using "wonder rounds" - this may explain your reliance on gimmicky ammo and gear.
 
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