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at less than 100 yds, with a silenced autorifle and subsonic ammo. From a braced firing position, yo can hit 2, maybe 3 before the group even knows that they are being fired upon. Since they wont know where you are, they will be "hiding " on the wrong side of cover, and you should be able to hit a couple before they can do anything but drop prone. If you have any smarts, you won't have opened-up on them when dropping prone gives them any cover from you, or if they are closer than 5 yds to the nearest cover. Naturally, you first shoot the ones closest to cover.

If you're smart, you do this at or near dusk, letting you slip away in darkness. Repeat this performance 2-3x and a pretty large group, up to 50 armed adults, is not going to want to share the same square 20 miles with you. Even a "mere" .22 bullet, out to 100m, in your torso will mean death if shtf. It might take a week for the infection and fever to actually stop your heart, but you'll be a goner from the first second of being hit. Everyone will know that, so your looter buddies will just abandon or kill you and take your stuff. a silenced .22lr auto, with subsonic 60 gr Aquila rds, is no joke, in the hands of a man who knows what to do with it. If they are dumb enough to sit around a fire at night, with one man standing watch, you can climb a tree, brain the sentry and put a bullet into a dozen sleeping bags before they can do anything about it. 25% casualties is a HELLUVA blow for any group to sustain and maintain combat viability. Inflicting 50% casulties, in a few seconds, is almost guaranteed to ruin them as a combat-effective group, for days, if not forever.
 

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And the fantasy runs ................................
 
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at less than 100 yds, with a silenced autorifle and subsonic ammo. From a braced firing position, yo can hit 2, maybe 3 before the group even knows that they are being fired upon. Since they wont know where you are, they will be "hiding " on the wrong side of cover, and you should be able to hit a couple before they can do anything but drop prone. If you have any smarts, you won't have opened-up on them when dropping prone gives them any cover from you, or if they are closer than 5 yds to the nearest cover. Naturally, you first shoot the ones closest to cover.

If you're smart, you do this at or near dusk, letting you slip away in darkness. Repeat this performance 2-3x and a pretty large group, up to 50 armed adults, is not going to want to share the same square 20 miles with you. Even a "mere" .22 bullet, out to 100m, in your torso will mean death if shtf. It might take a week for the infection and fever to actually stop your heart, but you'll be a goner from the first second of being hit. Everyone will know that, so your looter buddies will just abandon or kill you and take your stuff. a silenced .22lr auto, with subsonic 60 gr Aquila rds, is no joke, in the hands of a man who knows what to do with it. If they are dumb enough to sit around a fire at night, with one man standing watch, you can climb a tree, brain the sentry and put a bullet into a dozen sleeping bags before they can do anything about it. 25% casualties is a HELLUVA blow for any group to sustain and maintain combat viability. Inflicting 50% casulties, in a few seconds, is almost guaranteed to ruin them as a combat-effective group, for days, if not forever.
hold your hands out. fill one with crap and the other with what you wish will happen. Guess which one fills up first.

Your tactical knowledge is laughable at best. Using subsonic .22 in your fighting weapon, will get you dead quickly. You will not see the two or three guys with NVDs watching you climb the tree. Nor will you hear the shot that kills you. We have both thermal and night vision. what do you have, at this exact moment? Other than wishes and imagination? Hmm? can you honestly answer this question?
 

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Melvin doesn't watch the news very much, that is obvious. If he did he would notice that there are a lot of people in North America, have spend considerable time visiting 2 way ranges in the Middle East in the last 2 decades. Things just might not go the way he expects.
 
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at less than 100 yds, with a silenced autorifle and subsonic ammo. From a braced firing position, yo can hit 2, maybe 3 before the group even knows that they are being fired upon. Since they wont know where you are, they will be "hiding " on the wrong side of cover, and you should be able to hit a couple before they can do anything but drop prone. If you have any smarts, you won't have opened-up on them when dropping prone gives them any cover from you, or if they are closer than 5 yds to the nearest cover. Naturally, you first shoot the ones closest to cover.

If you're smart, you do this at or near dusk, letting you slip away in darkness. Repeat this performance 2-3x and a pretty large group, up to 50 armed adults, is not going to want to share the same square 20 miles with you. Even a "mere" .22 bullet, out to 100m, in your torso will mean death if shtf. It might take a week for the infection and fever to actually stop your heart, but you'll be a goner from the first second of being hit. Everyone will know that, so your looter buddies will just abandon or kill you and take your stuff. a silenced .22lr auto, with subsonic 60 gr Aquila rds, is no joke, in the hands of a man who knows what to do with it. If they are dumb enough to sit around a fire at night, with one man standing watch, you can climb a tree, brain the sentry and put a bullet into a dozen sleeping bags before they can do anything about it. 25% casualties is a HELLUVA blow for any group to sustain and maintain combat viability. Inflicting 50% casulties, in a few seconds, is almost guaranteed to ruin them as a combat-effective group, for days, if not forever.
Can't imagine sums up your problem 100%

you are over your head here, stick to the kiddie pool.

If you have to be braced to hit a man sized target inside 100 yds, you're already dead.

Inside 100 yds, there's not any point to subsonic, They will know very quickly where you are at and pin you down with cover fire. While you're pinned down you'll be out flanked. There are far more men with actual experience running around than you can imagine.

your fantasy of a single .22 meaning death is a joke too. People survived a hell of a lot worse before modern medicine arrived. Why has everyone forgotten modern medicine in your vision of SHTF?

And if you're up a tree, you're trapped. Your strategies are weapons grade stupid. But be free to live your fantasy, right up to where reality smacks you in the head, fatally.
 

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Can't imagine sums up your problem 100%
This. As we were discussing in the "no IDEA" thread ( no IDEA how effective can makes CAR-15 ), this SSS load isn't some magical death ray. It starts out from a 10" gun around 850-860 fps, and by a hundred yards is not only down to probably less than 75 ft/lbs, it would also have dropped a foot or more. So now our "fighting rifle" at a hundred yards is about as powerful as a .22lr pocket pistol; not something to trust as instant one-shot-stop medicine. And if guys are laying on the ground they present a target what, maybe 8-10 inches in height..? With a bullet dropping a foot or more at the described distance, it would be very easy to simply miss them or just graze them. Again, no magical instant, silent, deathblows there.

As much grief as I give gunkid about refusing to participate in his own discussions, it's certainly easy to understand why he won't. They seem to follow the pattern of posting silly, indefensible nonsense in an opening post, and then when the silliness of the nonsense is pointed out, he stays hidden rather than defend his own words or even learn something new.
 

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The other silly thing about his post is the "he's 100% combat effective as a lone wolf, but they as a group are not after suffering 50% losses" In this scenario, there's still more of them than there are of him...which means they're still more potent a force than he is (all things being equal) and probably even more dangerous than he is.
 

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I think that it is silly, to try and make a scenario based on a fantasy, credible. Just how I see the first post by Melvin.
 
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He's not the first person I've ever met that's been stuck in some SHTF Scenario from the mid 70's to the early 80's
or thinks they can loot to survive.
Some I've encountered in person at various times and places. Most are 420 pipe dreams, literally.
 

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He's not the first person I've ever met that's been stuck in some SHTF Scenario from the mid 70's to the early 80's
Back then I read a lot of those kind of books, but was young & foolish enough to believe that there was something unique about my particular time on this earth. There isn't. Things come & go, the political & sociological pendulum swings back and forth, etc. It's swinging pretty violently now, but odds are that indicates it may be reaching the far edge of its current direction and may well start swinging back the other way before a whole lot longer. Yes, russia has invaded ukraine and killed over ten thousand - in my dad's time, germany invaded ten times as many countries and killed a thousand times more people. It was horrific, but it wasn't the end of the world and it didn't push the whole world into chaos & anarchy where 99% of the population is dead and lone predatory vagabonds are the rule rather than the exception. And I don't think this time will do that either. I could be wrong, but odds are WAY in my favor on this.Way in my favor as in, "it's NEVER happened before"; not even once in all of recorded history.

Unprecedented events can happen; that's how we have both progress in positive things and growth of evil things. But to believe some specific unprecedented event as being the inevitable event takes huge faith. Doesn't matter if we're talking about a long-term global collapse or the bibilical rapture. Neither has happened before, and it takes the same kind of faith to believe in one as it does the other.
 

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Melvin should have read "Alas Babylon" a couple more times and spent time on the portion of the book where the townspeople got together and tracked down the marauders. Eventually that is the ending most marauders will find.
 

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Yes, it's been so long I can't even recall the basic gist of it beyond SHTF.
Another one that I've been thinking about getting a new copy of is Lucifer's Hammer.
Been thinking about that one with all the reports of "near misses" by big space rocks.
 

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Lucifer's Hammer: Somehow I just remembered that one part about one of the guys from the Observatory iirc.
He got was making what preps he could think of at the last minute. He told his wife to go to the store and buy a months? worth of food.
Well she bought a bunch of raw beef. He ended up making beef jerky like a madman.
Sadly I think he lost his family to looters and by the end of the book he made it okay.
Everyone lost something even if they made it.
 
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